Developing that “1” load for revolver and rifle…

[magnumwheelman]

I've been putting together some sets of hunting combos… either revolver, and companion rifle, or rifle and companion revolver…

1st to discuss, is my custom BFR 45-70, and a custom Martini single shot ( could also be my Marlin Guide Gun )

But with this combo, and the others… I’m hoping to develop a load that shoots good in both the revolver and the rifle… I’m thinking I should start with the hand gun, finding a few acceptable loads, them move to the rifles, seeing what shoots best, of the acceptable revolver loads

Anyone play around with combo hand loads such as I’m trying to do here???

I also currently have a combo in 500 JRH, and am working on completing a 480 Ruger #3… so I’ll have no less than 3 calibers to attempt this with…

this would be similar to the method I used for the 45 Colt & 38 Special loads I developed before, for CASS using revolvers & lever actions... but hopefully a little hotter loads acceptable for hunting use

[fm027]

I shoot a 1245fps 260gr Keith bullet revolver load in 44special through both my revolvers and Winchester 92's, it clocks 1600-ish through a Winchester.

Do similar in 41special too. A 255gr WFN doing 1200fps through 4,3/4" revolvers and 1500+ through a Henry. Both loads/calibers are plenty adequate for hunting, through wheel guns and shouldered rifles.

In 45colt, I have a Uberti 1873 lever gun that shoots a 250 round flat nose with 8.3gr Unique as good as my 45colt Colt-revolvers do. That one is my easy shooting standard pressure 45combo... ironically enough killed 2 bears with it, short range, so I know it works. Just happened to be what I had at the moment, so made due, and they only required only one bullet each, full pass throughs. And that's a very mild load ... the 41 & 44 loads mentioned above are better game bullets and will better the mild 45 by a large margin as general hunting/field rounds.

Can't help on any bigger boomers than that. But these are my combo's.

Edited to add: Accuracy with all three of these calibers in both revolvers and my levers is very good. Just last week checking the 255/41spl load in my Henry, I was able to shoot a tube full at 125yards inside of the diameter of my fist, with irons... I keep a 1/16 gold bead on my levers, and it helps to keep groups small if there is no scope mounted to aim more precise than that.

[45MAN]

MAN, I BEEN DEALING WITH THAT ISSUE RECENTLY. WORKING UP A 45 COLT HUNTING LOAD FOR A WINCHESTER MODEL 94 16" SADDLE RING CARBINE AND 1 OF MY RUGER 45 COLT REVOLVERS. THE LOAD I HOPED WOULD WORK IN BOTH (A 320gr BLUE BULLET OVER 23grs OF 296) DID GREAT IN A 5 SHOT NIMROD STYLE 45 COLT, AND GROUPED VERY GOOD @ 25 YARDS OUT OF THE WINCHESTER BUT @ 100 YARDS THE GROUPS WENT TO S... ANOTHER FAVORITE REVOLVER LOAD OF A 250gr RNFP OVER 21.5grs OF N110 GROUPED GREAT @ 25 YARDS IN THE WINCHESTER BUT THEN WENT TO S... @ 100 YARDS. I HAD A 45 COLT LOAD FOR USE IN A 10" CONTENDER (A 275gr SWC HP, CAST BY SIXSHOT, OVER 19grs OF 2400) AND IT ESSENTIALLY GROUPED THE SAME AS THE OTHER 2 LOADS @ 25 YARDS BUT IT WAS ALSO ACCURATE @ 100 YARDS. SO I WILL BE CARRYING 2 45 COLT LOADS, 1 FOR THE WINCHESTER, AND 1 FOR A REVOLVER.

I "THINK" S&W LEVEL LOADS WITH 255gr SWC's WOULD WORK IN BOTH THE WINCHESTER AND A RUGER BUT I WAS LOOKING FOR MORE "OOMPH" AND WAS JUST RUNNING OUT OF TIME TO KEEP ON GOING LOOKING FOR A "1 SIZE FITS ALL" LOAD.

[bigbrowndog]

Trying to get one load to shoot in both is probably going to require you to allow less accuracy from one of them. I have never been that type of person, I want the best I can get from each gun. I do like the one load, do everything approach but one load per gun, not one load for two guns or several guns. I’ll use different bullets to delineate the loads so I can tell at a glance which is for which gun. Currently I have one 44mag levergun, and several 44mag handguns each has its own load, even my 22 rimfires use different ammo, depending on what they like.

Trapr

[bula]

Helped a friend some time back work up a 45 Colt load for a Ruger BH and a Winchester lever to share. Was interesting. The levergun the limiting factor. Slower powders to take advantage of the rifle barrel. Suitable hunting accuracy, etc.. The bullets came from Wheelgun here on the forum. I passed along the data, and won't guess. 

[boolitdesigner]

1 size fits all? That would seem to be a 255 gr. in front of 9.0 gr. of Unique. Shoots well out of both and is better than factory loads.

[lar4570]

I have a 45-70 BFR and found that I got much better accuracy with powders on the faster side of things for it.
IMR4227, 4198, 4759. When I tried 4895 and 3031 I got terrible groups. 4227 would push a 405 to 1750 from my 10" barrel and give 1.5" groups with open sights at 50yds. The powder charge load notes are gone, shop fire several years ago...
My only 45-70 Rifle is a Sharps, so I did not try them in it.

[jeffh]

Maybe not in the same class, but I've worked on this for the 357 (revolver/carbine) since 2008 or 2009.

Assuming that the 3" revolvers are used for defense, vermin, varmints, small game and "plinking," and the carbine is used with the expectation that you'll wring out an extra 400 fps to gain for greater range (lower trajectory) or more power, you have a time of it striking a balance with powders.

Fast and medium-fast powders excel at pushing 148 through 185 grain lead out of the revolvers, but the slowest pistol powders really benefit from the longer carbine barrel - and to the tune of 400 to 500 fps. Same case, two very different result.

Everything is a compromise. I CAN shoot the "hot" carbine loads in the revolvers, but they are not pleasant. I CAN shoot the most useful revolver loads in the carbine, but they are too much for small game and fall way short for deer, in terms of power.

The lightest 148 grain full wad-cutters are super-accurate in either, and sufficient for small game, target, vermin, varmints, etc. at close range. The trajectory starts to be problematic as you get past 50 yards with the carbine and requires your attention even past 25 yards. I don't consider this a first-choice personal defense load in the revolver, and it's limited to small game, target, vermin, varmints, etc. in the carbine. HOWEVER, it IS ONE load for BOTH guns, which performs excellently in both and IS very useful to me, especially with a can on the carbine.

I have "general-purpose" loads using 6 grains of Unique and a 158 grain or 185 grain bullet, which excels in the revolver for a wide range of uses, and I am comfortable using it for defense purposes. In the carbine, they are accurate, gain quite a bit of velocity, but not enough to make it a "deer-load" and sacrifice the super-quiet subsonic loads with the can. Still a small game, target, vermin, varmints, etc. in the carbine, but with more power and noise than necessary. The benefit is that I CAN use them effectively in both guns.

The loads I work up for "deer-loads" in the carbine use the slowest pistol powders to gain the most velocity, and are safe to shoot from the revolvers, but are flat-out obnoxious to shoot from the revolvers. More the noise than the recoil, but it can be done.

I originally set out to use three bullets between the revolver/carbine combo, and then it went down to two. When I came into a new, LEE, 6c, 148 grain WC mould for $26, and everything I keep reading from Ed Harris, it went back up to three. So much for narrowing it all down to ONE. Still, the goal is to use o more than two powders, maybe three loads and three moulds, I've narrowed things a LOT.

Depending on what one wants (or needs) from the combo, it's possible, but compromise is an imperative we won't get around. Having ONE ONE-LOAD, is possible, but having others for the extremes will maintain a level of versatility which is so attractive with the revolver/carbine combo.

If nothing else, it is an exercise most worthy. Regardless of what conjecture, supposition, rationalization, or genuine experimentation and data someone else provides, it's something everyone should do. Everyone should try this on their own, but still ask as well as offer up their experience, as it provides a very meaningful argument with which we can educate and entertain ourselves and each other.

Hitting "post quick reply" seems wrong after such a post....

[45MAN]

Oct 1, 2022 11:00:02 GMT -5 boolitdesigner said:

1 size fits all? That would seem to be a 255 gr. in front of 9.0 gr. of Unique. Shoots well out of both and is better than factory loads.

A "S&W LOAD" TO ME. I PLAYED WITH SOME OF THESE TYPE LOADS EARLY ON AND SAW THE POTENTIAL BUT I WAS LOOKING FOR MORE POWER.

[45MAN]

BTW, MY RUGERS ARE 1-16 TWIST BARRELS AND IF I READ CORRECTLY THE WINCHESTER IS 1-38, TO ME THAT IS A BIG VARIABLE.

[jeffh]

Oct 2, 2022 7:38:41 GMT -5 45MAN said:

BTW, MY RUGERS ARE 1-16 TWIST BARRELS AND IF I READ CORRECTLY THE WINCHESTER IS 1-38, TO ME THAT IS A BIG VARIABLE.

Yes, one more point to balance, or at least wonder about.

I see 400 to 500 fps gains between revolver barrels and carbine barrels with the 357 using slow powders.  Somewhat less with the faster powders, but still a significant increase.  I figure the slower twist in the rifle - with the bullet moving so much faster will get the RPM of the bullet closer to what it is coming out of a short handgun barrel with the tighter twist.  Maybe it matters?

I've not gotten bored enough sorting out the rest of the kinks in this endeavor to chronograph one load in both guns and do the math to see how close it might get, but I've wondered if that might not be why some pistol cartridge rifle barrels have a slower twist than their handgun counterparts.

My 357 Mag carbine barrel is 1:14" twist, my revolvers look to be in line with revolver twists, but I've not measured them.  My particular combo would be unusual in that respect, but the 92 Rossi I had was a 1:30" twist and 200 grain truncated cone lead would enter a target at 15 to 25 yards fully sideways.  158s and 125s shot very well at any velocity, from 450 fps to 1800+fps.

[boolitdesigner]

Oct 2, 2022 7:37:19 GMT -5 45MAN said:

Oct 1, 2022 11:00:02 GMT -5 boolitdesigner said:

1 size fits all? That would seem to be a 255 gr. in front of 9.0 gr. of Unique. Shoots well out of both and is better than factory loads.

A "S&W LOAD" TO ME. I PLAYED WITH SOME OF THESE TYPE LOADS EARLY ON AND SAW THE POTENTIAL BUT I WAS LOOKING FOR MORE POWER.

When you are dealing with various makes of both rifle and pistol, you tend to make them suitable to any you have. Most people tend to overload things which do well as they are. There is a lot of evidence to that in current posts.