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Post by bradshaw on Jan 28, 2022 10:21:53 GMT -5
They use a long pressure test barrel instead of real guns THAT TURNS ME OFF AND DOES NOT TELL ME WHAT A LOAD MAY DO IN A REVOLVER. QUESTION: IS PRESSURE THE SAME IN A REVOLVER AS IN A CLOSED BARREL? ***** I am grateful for all of Hodgdon’s pressure testing, and sharing data. However, it would be helpful to have the developed loads choreographed in revolvers. A T/C Contender often shows 150 fps more velocity with the same load as a revolver with similar length barrel. Even this hypothetical “average” is useful as a rough guide only. To combine velocity from test barrel and revolver complicates layout of a manual, but the reward would be great data for thousands of handloaders. Ammunition manufacturers----and much of the buying public----value high velocity. Thus, an attraction to long barrels. SAAMI minimum chambers, with a short leade, contribute to velocity. Test barrels with an artificial “cylinder gap” were employed for a while. Consider the difficulty of glueing a transducer to a revolver chamber.... and forget the copper crusher gauge. It’s more work, more paper, fatter manual, to dual-test data for revolvers. Yet, permit me to submit it would be worth it to include a representation of loads both pressure tested and revolver chronographed. Meanwhile, back in the jungle, my respects to bullet makers who collect data from guns we shoot. David Bradshaw
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Post by sixshot on Jan 28, 2022 11:56:50 GMT -5
I guess what surprises me about Lil Gun is the high velocities & very low pressures. Can Lil Gun really be the villain its been made out to be with the high heat & gas cutting if the pressures are that low? All my kids love it in their 22 Hornets because nothing else comes close for high velocity, also in their K Hornets. I agree about pressure barrels, & figured as much but the other calibers, 44 & 45 were most likely pressure barrels as well. I did see 6 bottles of Longshot & 8 bottles of 244 at the local LGS a few days ago, didn't buy any, my stash is good for now.
Dick
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Post by x101airborne on Jan 28, 2022 12:45:26 GMT -5
Pro Reach is another powder I did not see in the manual although powders on both side of it on the burn rate chart were used. Kinda odd in my opinion.
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Post by bigbrowndog on Jan 28, 2022 13:03:19 GMT -5
I’m going to load a couple of the 41 loads and report back my findings, I’ll shoot them in a 4.2”FA and a 7.5”S&W, I’m simply curious and can’t stand it. They will not be the Max end loads, and I will replicate components.
Trapr
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callshot
.327 Meteor
Living another day in the worlds largest playground
Posts: 780
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Post by callshot on Jan 28, 2022 13:14:16 GMT -5
Just what I might need, another book to read when I don’t have time to read it. I’ve got too much older powder for the loads that we have been shooting for years. You know, the time tested and true ones. If I don’t get out shooting more I’d feel like I was tinkering and get things all mixed up and possibly make mistakes adjusting the sights for a different component. I have the loads recorded in a book of the ones you (Dick) helped me to shoot over the years and you will possibly let me look at your book sometime. Maybe I’ll have to wait until the movie comes out. This is not intended to be negative in any way. If you have information that helps improve the shooting experience then the more the better. When you find something that is great then we can talk about it and try it. Until then, keep your powder dry!
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Post by 45MAN on Jan 29, 2022 7:04:03 GMT -5
DICK: DON'T BE LURED INTO USING LIL'GUN IN REVOLVERS, YOU WILL REGRET IT! WHEN YOU MAKE A DEAL WITH THE DEVIL YOU MAY HAVE FUN FOR A WHILE BUT SOONER TNAN LATER YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY WITH RUINED FORCING CONES.
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jgt
.327 Meteor
Enter your message here...
Posts: 782
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Post by jgt on Jan 29, 2022 9:40:32 GMT -5
Lil Gun loads I have seen listed in the past for 44 magnums seem to only give higher velocities and lower pressure with heavy for the caliber bullet at near max loads. H110 and 296 beat it in most cases. I usually pick H4227 for 240 to 300 grain 44 magnum loads. 300 to 400 grain loads get 680 if I have it or 1680 if I don't. I should probably note that my 44 magnum guns have five and a half to six and a half inch barrels.
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Post by matt56 on Jan 29, 2022 20:07:11 GMT -5
My local sportsman’s warehouse has a single pound of winchester 244. I was standing in the store researching it because I couldn’t remember if I ever heard of it or not. If it wasn’t $37 I would have bought it because I can’t get unique anywhere
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Post by sixshot on Jan 30, 2022 2:28:33 GMT -5
Rey, you are correct, no Lil Gun in revolvers for me, I still have the first can I ever bought & that was a long time ago! I'm sure I've had it 20 years.
Dick
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Post by bigbore5 on Jan 30, 2022 4:39:54 GMT -5
I get all I need from my guns without maxing them out or using ruinous powders. If I feel I need more than the normal from a cartridge, I just go up to a larger cartridge. 357 to 357max to 44mag to....
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Post by Encore64 on Jan 30, 2022 6:27:17 GMT -5
I'm on board with no Lil Gun in my revolvers, period.
But, it nearly magical in carbines chambered in pistol calibers.
Sometimes (most times) only the negative is posted about a product.
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Post by oddshooter on Feb 1, 2022 12:31:34 GMT -5
I'm kind of a cynic at times, and this is one of those times.
That lower pressure (by -5,800psi) for Lil Gun in the 327fm 100gr compared to the W296/H110 changes entirely in the 357 158gr to a higher pressure in the 357mag compared to the H110 (+4,500psi).
That just seems odd to go from lower pressure to higher pressure by a lot; although the Velocity is lower and higher as well.
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Post by bradshaw on Feb 1, 2022 13:55:14 GMT -5
I guess what surprises me about Lil Gun is the high velocities & very low pressures. Can Lil Gun really be the villain its been made out to be with the high heat & gas cutting if the pressures are that low? All my kids love it in their 22 Hornets because nothing else comes close for high velocity, also in their K Hornets. I agree about pressure barrels, & figured as much but the other calibers, 44 & 45 were most likely pressure barrels as well. I did see 6 bottles of Longshot & 8 bottles of 244 at the local LGS a few days ago, didn't buy any, my stash is good for now. Dick ***** Lee Martin put his finger on the problem when said his brief foray into Lil Gun showed the revolver got hot is few rounds. My knowledge of chemistry could hide in a thimble. Nevertheless, work with oxygen-acetylene torches and dynamite breed a profound respect for OXYGEN, neither melts nor cuts, big rocks aren’t turned into little rocks, and construction steel isn’t snipped into scrap. Bob Baker of Freedom Arms theorized a high nitroglycerine content in Lil Gun is responsible for accelerated forcing cone erosion. I can’t speak to nitro percentage in various double base powders, but it may be relatively high in Lil Gun. That Lil Gun works well in closed breech guns, but turns aggressive in the presence of a cylinder gap, may indicate an already high nitro presence leaps at the chance to draw more oxygen. Jim Stekl of Remington R&D, the Bench Rest Hall of Fame, and father of the Bench Rest series of cartridges, described to this shooter his rejection of a ballyhooed ball powder that fused to leade in a bench rest barrel. Ruined the bore for bench rest competition. Stelk reverted to his old stick powder. I’m perfectly satisfied to have Bob Baker and Lee Martin guinea pig Lil Gun; saves me having to go there. David Bradshaw
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jban
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 79
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Post by jban on Feb 2, 2022 16:12:28 GMT -5
I used to buy one every three or four years. The reloading shop had them on sale for $12. That was still no bargain. I compared it to the website, and you didn't even get all the info for the bullets that were shown. Unless there is an article in it that I want to read, the reloading info isn't worth it. I will give Hodgdon credit for their website. That gets used alot by myself and other people I know.
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