|
Post by cas on Dec 18, 2021 15:26:47 GMT -5
I used to shoot the Rem 300gr JHP (from Midway), mostly in my .45-70 Contender pistol. When I got a Marlin I started using them in that too. they shot amazing, sub MOA 100 yard groups, crazy as that is (and with a 2x scout scope), but I had less than stellar results on the first deer I ever used them on. Lots of factors there honestly, shot a bedded doe up close. So body position was odd. That close, I may have been over driving them a bit. As it tried to get away, I took several follow up shots through heavy thicket, most of them never reached her. Those that did lacked the penetration I felt they should have had. After that I switched to the Rem 400gr JSP, from Midway. They were a bit more excitable to shoot. First and only deer I used it on, a nice sized buck, fairly close, took about one step and nosed dived into the ground. It exited, but I found the jacket under the hide, but I was fine with that. They also gave me some impressive groups that a 16" lever gun with scout scope had no business shooting. Speaking of buying them from Midway, an off topic "rant", I am (was) a 35+ year customer of theirs, spending ungodly amounts of money with them. You used to be able to go back and look at all the past invoices (don't know maybe you still can). I did that once, adding it all up as I went. As the total started to approach what I was making a year at the time, I stopped. Jan 1, 2014 they stopped giving their token FFL discount, and I think I've bought two things from them since. Nice job, how's that working out for ya? It's hard not to find stuff cheaper than what they want.
|
|
|
Post by bradshaw on Dec 19, 2021 9:42:34 GMT -5
I used to shoot the Rem 300gr JHP (from Midway), mostly in my .45-70 Contender pistol. When I got a Marlin I started using them in that too. they shot amazing, sub MOA 100 yard groups, crazy as that is (and with a 2x scout scope), but I had less than stellar results on the first deer I ever used them on. Lots of factors there honestly, shot a bedded doe up close. So body position was odd. That close, I may have been over driving them a bit. As it tried to get away, I took several follow up shots through heavy thicket, most of them never reached her. Those that did lacked the penetration I felt they should have had. After that I switched to the Rem 400gr JSP, from Midway. They were a bit more excitable to shoot. First and only deer I used it on, a nice sized buck, fairly close, took about one step and nosed dived into the ground. It exited, but I found the jacket under the hide, but I was fine with that. They also gave me some impressive groups that a 16" lever gun with scout scope had no business shooting. ----cas ***** cas.... the Remington .458 300 JHP seems an excitable slug. A shooting buddy in Louisiana called the other day. Says a man he knows lost two bucks shot with Marlin .45-70 and handload of Rem. 300 JHP. However, since neither deer was recovered, it is impossible to prove Point of Impact. To top it off, the guy hunts a power line. A pumpkin ball can’t be thrown fast enough to shoot flat. It has to drop. And the faster you throw a barn door, the faster it slows down. My own forays with the .45-70 sugar off to a controlable pumpkin ball launched at moderate pressure without pretense to pushing aside a potent bottleneck. The Remington 405 Flat Nose makes sense in traditional form. David Bradshaw
|
|
|
Post by starmetal47 on Dec 19, 2021 10:07:23 GMT -5
I shot a nice 6 point buck from 75 yards away in the exact right spot in the shoulder, broadside shot, using Remington 405 grain 45-70 factory loads out of an 1886 Browing/Winnie carbine. He went over 600 yards. I was really disappointed at that performance and switch to 420 grain cast and nary a problem anymore. I think it was just a flute because that 405 is/was a good bullet and it was made to expand at those lower velocities. Another bullet that was my favorite for whitetail deer was the Hornady 100 grain roundnose which they discontinured too. I feel some of these discontinued bullets (and notice many of them roundnoses) was do to the shift to the new VLD and polymer tipped svelte bullets!
|
|
|
Post by Encore64 on Dec 19, 2021 10:11:16 GMT -5
I love the Remington 405s and have some hoarded back. I loaded some with full throttle Ruger Load Data for my #3.....ONCE!!!
|
|
|
Post by bradshaw on Dec 19, 2021 13:21:04 GMT -5
I shot a nice 6 point buck from 75 yards away in the exact right spot in the shoulder, broadside shot, using Remington 405 grain 45-70 factory loads out of an 1886 Browing/Winnie carbine. He went over 600 yards. I was really disappointed at that performance and switch to 420 grain cast and nary a problem anymore. I think it was just a flute because that 405 is/was a good bullet and it was made to expand at those lower velocities. Another bullet that was my favorite for whitetail deer was the Hornady 100 grain roundnose which they discontinured too. I feel some of these discontinued bullets (and notice many of them roundnoses) was do to the shift to the new VLD and polymer tipped svelte bullets! ***** Please detail this performance. I have dressed off deer with a bullet or arrow stuck in ‘em, including a shoulder joint and a rear leg, bullets which did nasty damage but stopped on bone. For your deer to go 600 yards with a .458 bullet on the point of the shoulder has me thinking the bullet stopped right there. No lung damage? Did the deer bed, then get up and walk or run? Intermittent blood loss? Also, I’ve never heard of a 100 grain .458. Hornady made great .243 100 grain Spire Point; may have made the same weight in Round Nose. David Bradshaw .
|
|
|
Post by bigbrowndog on Dec 19, 2021 17:19:17 GMT -5
I used the 300gr bullets for a couple of years and had great results with broadside hits. One day I had a nice buck come in an never present broadside so as he walked away I decided to try and drive the bullet forward. I mean hey I was using a 4570 and it was a 300gr bullet, luckily the bullet landed on the hip joint of the right side of the deer and he wasn’t able to make really good headway. Also luckily my bigbrowndog (Rhodesian Ridgeback) was in the truck napping, so when I realized the deer was not going to be an easy find. I went and got him on the trail, slow and steady we tracked him until we came to the property fence line. Marked the fence and got permission from the owners to continue the search the next morning. Found him dead 50-75 yards other side of fence. The bullet had broken the socket joint but the deer was able to still make headway, probably a quarter miles worth maybe less. The blood trail was sparse and if it weren’t for Scout I’d probably never recovered a deer only a skeleton if that. Penetration was maybe 10-12 inches, I used the bullet one more time on a big pig and got less penetration for two shots. Luckily I only needed about 6” in order to get to the heart, both of those bullets were recovered, mushroomed beautifully but dismal penetration. The load pushed the bullet right at 2000fps, after the pig I switched to Speer 350grFP, and 405cast. I gave the balance of the bullets to a friend for use in his 458 SoCom, he reported violent expansion even at 1600fps, so he saves them for varmints instead of pigs. Says they are bombs on raccoons, just a coon explosion.
Trapr
|
|
|
Post by x101airborne on Dec 19, 2021 20:54:29 GMT -5
All these stories coming out are just bewildering me. I could not imagine a 45-70 with much of any load not blowing its way through a whitetail. Just goes to show, I dont know as much as I "think" I know. Thank you all for all the stories.
|
|
|
Post by boolitdesigner on Dec 19, 2021 21:23:23 GMT -5
All these stories coming out are just bewildering me. I could not imagine a 45-70 with much of any load not blowing its way through a whitetail. Just goes to show, I dont know as much as I "think" I know. Thank you all for all the stories. Oh, it does happen. I once shot a large doe (same basic placement) with a 405 gr, cast at factory velocity...... it didn't react to the shot, walked slowly about 45 yards picking at tender limb tips, stopped and fell over stone dead. Only deer that has happened to when I shot it. It did go all the way through too. I'll blame it on it's being an out of state deer.
|
|
|
Post by starmetal47 on Dec 19, 2021 23:31:04 GMT -5
I used the 300gr bullets for a couple of years and had great results with broadside hits. One day I had a nice buck come in an never present broadside so as he walked away I decided to try and drive the bullet forward. I mean hey I was using a 4570 and it was a 300gr bullet, luckily the bullet landed on the hip joint of the right side of the deer and he wasn’t able to make really good headway. Also luckily my bigbrowndog (Rhodesian Ridgeback) was in the truck napping, so when I realized the deer was not going to be an easy find. I went and got him on the trail, slow and steady we tracked him until we came to the property fence line. Marked the fence and got permission from the owners to continue the search the next morning. Found him dead 50-75 yards other side of fence. The bullet had broken the socket joint but the deer was able to still make headway, probably a quarter miles worth maybe less. The blood trail was sparse and if it weren’t for Scout I’d probably never recovered a deer only a skeleton if that. Penetration was maybe 10-12 inches, I used the bullet one more time on a big pig and got less penetration for two shots. Luckily I only needed about 6” in order to get to the heart, both of those bullets were recovered, mushroomed beautifully but dismal penetration. The load pushed the bullet right at 2000fps, after the pig I switched to Speer 350grFP, and 405cast. I gave the balance of the bullets to a friend for use in his 458 SoCom, he reported violent expansion even at 1600fps, so he saves them for varmints instead of pigs. Says they are bombs on raccoons, just a coon explosion. Trapr I'll detail it more. The bullet entrance was on the same lever as the shoulder joint. The deer was facing to the right. The bullet impact was about 2 inches on the left side of that joint, that is towards the rear since he was facing to the right. The bullet went through both sides of the deer. It was on my neighbor's farm. I tried to trial him, but lost the trail and at time had trailed along time. He was going up hill. Well on top of the hill was my neighbors barn. He found him the next day thinking the deer was shot with an arrow. From where I shot him to that barn was like 600 yards. The farm is on 435 acres. I was dumbfounded the deer when that far. In that distance he should have bled out wouldn't you think?
|
|
|
Post by bigbrowndog on Dec 20, 2021 11:08:19 GMT -5
Sounds like it was possibly a bit too far back, when I picture the animal I see a quartered on animal,.....was it broadside??? I shot my best buck as it walked quartering towards me and impacted like yours a couple inches behind the shoulder. Luckily, I clipped a bit of lung and liver AND I was using a 200gr. Nosler ballistic tip from a 338wm. It made the deer sick enough that it holed up in thick brush 150-200 yards away and died. Little to no blood trail, just hard looking and searching. Turns out the deer possibly stepped just I broke the shot and caused the bullet to land farther back than intended and aimed. I was holding in front of the shoulder, and the shot was not a far one,...150-175 yards. After that episode I switched back to Partitions,....the BT came apart and exited in small pieces, none large enough to allow a decent blood supply to exit and leave a trail.
We live and learn, choose our bullets carefully......even they have optimal performance parameters, and they change as the game changes.
Trapr
|
|
edk
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,108
|
Post by edk on Dec 23, 2021 7:18:31 GMT -5
Only 45-70 factory ammo used has been the 400gr soft points - they work! Really need to start casting for it as there is likely no better rifle application for cast.
Hsve had only success with partitions however when a member of my caribou hunting party took a buck with a 300wm & ballistic tip it was a mess: a half dozen exit holes. Big game varmint hunting! I guess that was success of a sort but everyone was disgusted by the mess. Still use them but more so for 22 cal varmint work. Nosler has long been my favorite maker of rifle hunting bullets.
|
|
|
Post by foxtrapper on Dec 23, 2021 8:35:45 GMT -5
Been using cast performance 460 wfn with benchmark powder. Very accurate bullet and load. Shot a couple of black bear and was very happy with the results!
|
|
|
Post by starmetal47 on Dec 23, 2021 10:56:56 GMT -5
Only 45-70 factory ammo used has been the 400gr soft points - they work! Really need to start casting for it as there is likely no better rifle application for cast. Hsve had only success with partitions however when a member of my caribou hunting party took a buck with a 300wm & ballistic tip it was a mess: a half dozen exit holes. Big game varmint hunting! I guess that was success of a sort but everyone was disgusted by the mess. Still use them but more so for 22 cal varmint work. Nosler has long been my favorite maker of rifle hunting bullets. When those Ballistic Tips first come out they were explosive, but it has been quite awhile ago now that they supposedly changed them to be a little harder. I don't know if that is true or now. How current is your knowledge of them? A 300 WM has a great deal of velocity, maybe too much for them?
|
|
|
Post by bradshaw on Dec 23, 2021 12:19:38 GMT -5
Only 45-70 factory ammo used has been the 400gr soft points - they work! Really need to start casting for it as there is likely no better rifle application for cast. Hsve had only success with partitions however when a member of my caribou hunting party took a buck with a 300wm & ballistic tip it was a mess: a half dozen exit holes. Big game varmint hunting! I guess that was success of a sort but everyone was disgusted by the mess. Still use them but more so for 22 cal varmint work. Nosler has long been my favorite maker of rifle hunting bullets. When those Ballistic Tips first come out they were explosive, but it has been quite awhile ago now that they supposedly changed them to be a little harder. I don't know if that is true or now. How current is your knowledge of them? A 300 WM has a great deal of velocity, maybe too much for them? ***** Believe Accubond became Nosler’s answer to blow-up problems with the original Ballistic-Tip and subsequent attempt at improvement. I encountered plastic tipped bullets while moose hunting in Canada years before Nosler introduced it’s U.S. version. I wrote up my first hunting experience with the Ballistic-Tip, a long and difficult tracking of a whitetail buck. The kind of story that should not be abbreviated. Maintaining balance to every step, safety off the Remington M6 .308 pump carbine and closing, trying to wear my eyes in the back of my head as well as front & peripheral, the buck sprang from behind birch tops like a lion, cutting a streak from my right to left. Slapping a shot over the bounding deer as load of snow slid down my face, burying the Willaims Guide peep sight. Slapping a round into the chamber, wiping the snow in the same stroke... swinging ahead of the buck to slot of light between hardwoods, nailing as the deer flashes. Knowing contact, rack a round. Step to where the buck had sprung. Follow its track to the slot through the maples. From here, you could have poured the blood from a milk pail. The buck lay, lungless in the snow, 55 paces from impact. The Nosler .308 150 Ballistic-Tip, fueled as I recall by Winchester 748, cratered a 3 or 4-inch hole on entry on the lead edge of the left shoulder. A pencil hole defined the exit. This deer bled both sides, primarily the entrance. Vaporized the lungs. Well into the afternoon, snow descends in blankets, it would be a smooth but long rope drag to dirt road. Wrote the story up, describing a successful hunt brought home by bullet failure. The story was not published. Tracking, made entirely of detail, differs from any other hunt. Smooth movement, slow... fast... slow. False anticipation, risky acceleration, always in sound discipline. The nonsense of staying downwind impossible in mountain tracking. What seemed to the author a real story of hunting, shot down by a critique of product. Bullet failure can happen, even when it brings the game to the meat pole. When the game escapes to suffer, often die, there is no forensic proof of the shot. Was the wound really bullet failure? Which is why I take detailed description over abbreviated assertion. David Bradshaw
|
|
edk
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,108
|
Post by edk on Dec 23, 2021 13:32:42 GMT -5
Only 45-70 factory ammo used has been the 400gr soft points - they work! Really need to start casting for it as there is likely no better rifle application for cast. Hsve had only success with partitions however when a member of my caribou hunting party took a buck with a 300wm & ballistic tip it was a mess: a half dozen exit holes. Big game varmint hunting! I guess that was success of a sort but everyone was disgusted by the mess. Still use them but more so for 22 cal varmint work. Nosler has long been my favorite maker of rifle hunting bullets. When those Ballistic Tips first come out they were explosive, but it has been quite awhile ago now that they supposedly changed them to be a little harder. I don't know if that is true or now. How current is your knowledge of them? A 300 WM has a great deal of velocity, maybe too much for them? That may well be the case that they are improved as this was almost 20 years ago. I can't say as did you notice I reported it was a member of my caribou hunting party? I was equipped with a Win270 and Nosler partition content with the philosophy "if it ain't broke don't fix it". Even though I got chuckled at for my choices my buck behaved like a drunk stumbling out of a bar having polished off a fifth of JD: 2-3 staggered steps and collapsed to the ground. I live in northern New England and hunt locally - primarily NH and Maine where shots are always less than 250 yards and more often 50-100. Closest I've come is to use Accubonds which have a reputation for holding together better but then again I do not own a belted magnum to compare. Edited my post to point out that where I live is prime 45-70 territory - maybe that will drift the thread back on course!
|
|