Nosler M48 Independence

[pacecars]

I just put one in 6.5mm Creedmoor on layaway and have to decide on a scope. I plan to use it with a suppressor or at least a brake and see that lots of people are using a regular rifle scope on them instead of a dedicated long eye relief pistol scope. Have any of you that have used both types of scopes on a pistol have any recommendations and advantages and disadvantages of each? I have used pistol scopes on revolvers, T/Cs and Savage Strikers but never a rifle scope.

[flyingzebra]

If your eyes are good with the pistol scopes, they're good to go for you.

I'm guessing that you're looking to use the M84 as a hunting gun.

I find it's easier to be flexible with field positions with the extended relief scopes. My property is hilly and I have lots of range for uphill and downhill shots on all sorts of terrain. With the specialty handguns I make good use of my sling, backpack and other items for support.
It's good to not have to crawl up on the gun. Again, this is considering that you are planning to use the gun for field use and hunting.

With the scope farther forward, I get an easier view on the field around whatever's needing to get shot.
With a pistol scope that's variable magnification, and with the adjustable objective for parallax correction at distances other than the target board.


If you will only be using it for shooting targets from a bench, and/or your hunting world is flat and smooth, the rifle scope might be good for you. For that caliber I'd suggest a really good brake and a rifle scope with generous eye relief.

[pacecars]

It will be for hunting

[potatojudge]

I have plenty of both types of scopes on various specialty pistols and revolvers.

When using a revolver, you accept certain limitations you don't have with a rifle. Optic choices, range, and trajectory are the big ones. Pistol scopes are obligatory.

With specialty pistols, you can close the gap between pistol and rifle to essentially non-existent. Two main issues with pistol scopes are limited features and low light utility. There is no getting around what scopes are on the market or ambient light interfering with you seeing a 4x image 12+ inches from your eye at last light.

Decide for yourself what role this Nosler will fill. Given the size, weight, and chambering, I'd say it should fill the role of a rifle without any handicaps. That means a rifle scope.

Shown is my version of your new rig- an H-S in 284 with Leica 3.5-14 which I chose for its light weight, good magnification range, excellent glass, and generous, forgiving eye relief. I'd like an illuminated reticle, but the scopes I have with that feature require a tradeoff of weight or slightly less forgiving eye relief. I'm happy with this setup. That said, I compared a lot of very nice scopes side by side to find a rifle scope I was happy with.

[markhampton]

I have three Nosler pistols and they all wear rifle scopes.  Ditto on H-S Precision handguns I hunt with.  They also have effective muzzle brakes.  For hunting, I use Leupold 4.5-14x with B&C reticle.  Once I find the target in the scope, I back off a bit, away from the optic.  Keeping the crosshairs in the center of the donut - all is good.  It takes some practice getting comfortable/familiar with this set-up but it works.  

[foxtrapper]

Nov 5, 2021 11:48:55 GMT -5 pacecars said:

I just put one in 6.5mm Creedmoor on layaway and have to decide on a scope. I plan to use it with a suppressor or at least a brake and see that lots of people are using a regular rifle scope on them instead of a dedicated long eye relief pistol scope. Have any of you that have used both types of scopes on a pistol have any recommendations and advantages and disadvantages of each? I have used pistol scopes on revolvers, T/Cs and Savage Strikers but never a rifle scope.

What length barrel did you go with?

[pacecars]

15 inch

[pacecars]

Well crap! I had found the gun in Michigan and the dealer had it on gunbroker also. Just after he said he could do a layaway he went to remove it from gunbroker and someone hit the buy it now so now I have to start my search over. I am bummed

[rleprechaun]

If you get a gun, consider the Leupold 2.5-8.0 power pistol scope.

[Thunderjet]

If anyone is still interested in these, they took a massive price drop. I was looking over a year ago and they were hard to find and roughly $1800-1900. Nowadays you can find the 6.5 CM model for just a shade over $1400. I ordered one from the Gun Dock in Kentucky.

[bradshaw]

When I wrote up the XP-100 7mm BR Remington for Shooting Times or some other rag, and before I put iron sights on it, I mounted a Leupold 10x AO (Adjustable Objective) target scope. Leupold was concerned folks might get their nose close and get whacked by the bolt sleeve, especially with a stiff load. I was present in Black Canyon when an NRA director asked IHMSA president Elgin Gates if we’d mind NRA Competions Committee using our rule book to add handgun to the NRA rifle silhouette program. Wasn’t long before the NRA allowed scopes in Field Pistol, a 100 yard, offhand-only game, shot with straight-wall cases on small silhouettes. Thus evolved the “taco hold,” with face virtually against your gun hand. This compressed eye relief position, in conjunction with mouse bullets, invited use of a rifle scope.... Field Pistol shooters were off to the races.

Mark refined his technique to draw the eye straight back to provide eye relief----with uninterrupted sighting----necessary for high velocity game loads.

The bolt pistol as we see today is a direct development of IHMSA Unlimited competition, where astounding accuracy became a given. The single shot hunting pistol has firm roots in competition. Might be wise for the shooter just starting in to work on his or her positions before deciding on a scope.
David Bradshaw

[Thunderjet]

Not 100% of the action used on my first bolt action but do remember the year was 1978. It was a right hand bolt action which fit me perfect as I am a lefty. I want to say it was a XP Remington. Mailed it off to McGowen and they opened up the bolt face and rebarreled it to .308 Winchester and also think they changed the extractor. When those rams were hit at 200 yards they went down fast!

The Nosler 48 reminds me of that pistol. Without even trying Nosler made a perfect bolt handgun for a left handed shooter.

[bradshaw]

Remington R&D machinist and Bench Rest Hall of Fame’s Jim Stekl brought two XP-100 7mm BR Remington prototypes to the intense IHMSA 1980 Internationals. As the pistols were too heavy to make weight (Unlimited=4.5 lbs), Stekl and this shooter got together to slim it down. Remington had a surplus of Buck Rogers center-grip stocks molded from Dupont Zytel for the original .221 Fireball, the suits were not in mind of buying the George Petersen thumbhole of Western Gunstock which graced most of the custom Unlimited pistols.

Single shot vs magazine feed
The XP-100 uses the solid bottom receiver of the Remington’s 40-X match action, providing unparalleled bedding and straight-line link for the forward-mounted trigger (below receiver ring) required by a center-grip. To add a magazine----which the Remington custom shop did a while later----allows only rear-grip stock with rear mount trigger (under receiver bridge).

Creedmoor position favors center-grip design. I prefer dissipation of recoil as the gun rises with a center-grip. The Dead Frog position is best shot with a rear-grip pistol, where balance is not a factor and the barrels extends further over the supporting leg (it does push the muzzle farther from your ear). Recoil is more linear with a rear-grip. Either position requires practice. Individual anatomy may find one position comfortable, the other impossible.

Freestyle vs rest
In silhouette, the pistol must me visibly clear of the ground. No artificial rest allowed. For hunting, any secure rest will do, even if it is just for one shot. The shooter looks for whatever rest will steady the pistol and permit undisturbed FOLLOW-THROUGH. No matter how fast the lock time of your pistol, follow-through is critical to accuracy.

Right vs left-hand bolt
Personal preference. A left hand bolt offered my right hand no advantage in silhouette. Likewise, the right hand bolt worked fine when I shot Unlimited left-handed (shot 80x80 left-handed with XP-100 6mm BR in international championship; among others, Jim Stekl watching). In .22 silhouette, the great Anschutz bolt pistol (built on Anschutz Model 64 action with fine 2-stage trigger), its left-hand bolt found favor with many right hand shooters. Likewise, same pistol with right hand bolt found favor with left hand shooters. A .22 grip does not shift in your hand. The centerfire shifts in your hand on recoil. In centerfire, I prefer my unhand to operate the bolt, as it exercises my hand over long strings of fire, momentarily relaxing the hand to keep my grip sensitive, make it more consistent.

Bolt handle
Remington put a flat, dogleg bolt handle on the XP. Same configuration as the once-maligned M600 carbine. Pushing bolt knob forward, away from same-side trigger finger. Excellent arrangement for a silhouette pistol, where, in conjunction with a center-grip stock a protruding knob smacks the shooter’s wrist. Also, in Creedmoor a protruding handle may prevent nestling the pistol against your hip. Wichita chose a flat handle, which nestles painless against hip.

Wichita offered it fine single shot pistol with right or left hand bolt, with center-grip or rear-grip walnut stock. Like the Remington, Wichita’s record speaks for itself. Rght or left hand bolt comes down to preference. Down in New Braunfels, Texas, NRA rifle silhouetters smirked when Jim Whitcomb and this shooter asked may we try our Unlimited pistols on your rams @ 500 meters (547 yards). Whircomb fired first, his center-grip Wichita 7mm IHMSA, loaded with Sierra 168 BTHP over H4895, stitching four consecutive shots on the chest of a swinger ram; you could cover his hits with a desert plate. With his photography assistant and fellow silhouetter Ken Fryer spotting, Whitcomb’s first shot----and first hit----silenced the Firing Line. Numerous spotting scopes witnessed this display of bolt pistol accuracy. Don’t remember whether Whitcomb spotted me, or Fryer, or a tough young female IHMSA silhouetter from San Antonio. As Whitcomb had dotted the chest on the swinger ram, I went for its head. My center-grip XP-100 7mmx308-1/3/4”, built by Skip Talbot with .075” front blade and Micro rear sights, stitched 4x4 Sierra 140 Spitzer flat points, over H4895, into the brainpan.

Both Whitcomb and I shot Creedmoor, open sights. This in no way maligns the rifle silhouetter, who shoots with a scope, but offhand only. Both are tough games, driven by challenge and satisfaction. Likewise the handgun hunter, going without buttstock where quite a few rifle shooters fear to tread.
David Bradshaw

[jwp475]

I have both a Wichita 308 Win and an XP100 in 7mm BR. I can't find a scope base to fit the Wichita. But I have a Buris 2X7 handgun scope I plan to mount on the XP100.
With CFE223 and the 120 BT I'm getting 2599 FPS

[bradshaw]

Aug 31, 2022 10:24:15 GMT -5 jwp475 said:

I have both a Wichita 308 Win and an XP100 in 7mm BR. I can't find a scope base to fit the Wichita. But I have a Buris 2X7 handgun scope I plan to mount on the XP100.
With CFE223 and the 120 BT I'm getting 2599 FPS

*****


John.... Brownells sells, or used to, aluminum Weaver/Picatinny base stock. Flat bottom, without cross cuts. Screw holes to be drilled. Mill radius to match your Wichita receiver. An inexpensive, solid solution.
David