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Post by Quick Draw McGraw on Jun 18, 2021 19:30:13 GMT -5
Howdy all, I have a question for everyone here on the bullets in the link below: www.midwayusa.com/product/1019442564?pid=109889I bought these to reload in my .50 Beowulf and my .500 S&W Magnum, but after perusing the net, I'm concerned that loading all-brass bullets into a handgun round could result in the ATF breathing down my neck. I have no interest in doing anything that isn't legit. I spoke with Gary Reeder and he was pretty certain that for target shooting or blasting inanimate objects out in the desert they would be just fine. On hunting, he was not sure as he said FMJ rounds are not okay to hunt with. He said these might be considered to be FMJ by some authorities. Gary has the experience so I tend to believe him. But, for loading in a handgun round, would these get me into trouble? Would they be considered "armor piercing" or something like that which could end with the powers that be getting their boxers in a bunch? If anyone knows, please share as I would appreciate any insights. As always, thanks for the help everyone. |
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Post by x101airborne on Jun 18, 2021 19:59:50 GMT -5
Thank you, that was the answer I was looking for in my other thread.
Most of the time "expanding bullets" are required for licensed big game (soft point, hollow point, etc.).
For pests and nuisance control, expanding bullets are usually not required.
You can in some states, shoot ground squirrels with fmj 30-06. Up to you. For big game, different story.
The bullets you referenced are not intended as "armor piercing" (although I think they would do rather well in that respect). So no, unless your state has some law I am ignorant of, you should be good to go.
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nicholst55
.375 Atomic
Retired, twice.
Posts: 1,047
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Post by nicholst55 on Jun 18, 2021 20:09:07 GMT -5
I don't think you're going to get in trouble. While I'm not familiar with the specific wording of California's 'lead-free' hunting bullet law(s), I suspect that this type of bullet shown at the link were designed for the California (or similar) market. The laws sate that hunting bullets cannot contain lead. Do they specify that they MUST be expanding bullets? Solid copper or bronze bullets have been made for many years, often intended for dangerous game hunting. Nobody has gone to jail for using them AFAIK.
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Post by 45MAN on Jun 18, 2021 20:13:33 GMT -5
QUICK DRAW: NOT SURE I KNOW THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION BUT I WOULD NOT USE THOSE POINTED BULLETS FOR REVOLVER HUNTING, INSTAEAD GO WITH THE LEHIGH WFN MONOLITHIC.
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jack
.30 Stingray
Posts: 195 
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Post by jack on Jun 20, 2021 20:04:04 GMT -5
In one form or another I made bullets commercially for much of the last 35 years. The use of FMJ or non expanding bullets for game is largely a state by state issue. Solid, FMJ, Monolithic bullets, etc are NOT illegal for sporting use if your state allows it. BUT - the ATF comes into play if there is a concern that the projectile (Particularly in a hand gun) is designed or capable of being used for the purpose of defeating regularly available body armor. This is the old Mario Biaggi/Howard Metzenbaughm thingy about "cop killer" bullets. It is a fairly subjective thing, but when it has arisen for me in the past a simple signed statement to my compliance agent asserting the design was for sporting and hunting purposes has sufficed. This came up for me in 1988, when we made a set of dies to form a bullet similar in shape the the LBT LFN, this was made with a turned jacket that had an open base that held a lead core - (Think and upside down Bear Claw bullet. We were making a monolithic solid already but a lead core for half the length upped total weight and shortened over-all length compared to solid copper or naval bronze slugs _Theoretical advantages and good campfire conversation! Anyway, someone brought this bullet to ATF attention and I had to do some answering about its uses (They never asked a single question about the true solid!) Apparently the marketing we had done emphasizing the penetrating qualities caught someones attention.
It does not take a solid or solid type design to get noticed either. We took a turned jacket, with a very small cavity in the nose - just enough to reach about 20% of the way down the length of the bullet, then we bonded a small core section in the cavity and formed the nose - again similar to the LBT shape. We were looking to impart a small amount of expansion to cause a larger wound cavity, while still offering deep penetration on big game. THIS bullet set off someones radar as a potential vest beater, and we went down that same path again. Again ATF was good with the explanation.
All this wind is my way of saying that YOU are not the one who is likely to have a legal issue. This is an established company selling through a reputable source. If ATF was going to have an issue with the design and construction it probably would already have come about. I think you can fire away and feel easy!
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Post by Quick Draw McGraw on Jun 23, 2021 15:19:26 GMT -5
In one form or another I made bullets commercially for much of the last 35 years. The use of FMJ or non expanding bullets for game is largely a state by state issue. Solid, FMJ, Monolithic bullets, etc are NOT illegal for sporting use if your state allows it. BUT - the ATF comes into play if there is a concern that the projectile (Particularly in a hand gun) is designed or capable of being used for the purpose of defeating regularly available body armor. This is the old Mario Biaggi/Howard Metzenbaughm thingy about "cop killer" bullets. It is a fairly subjective thing, but when it has arisen for me in the past a simple signed statement to my compliance agent asserting the design was for sporting and hunting purposes has sufficed. This came up for me in 1988, when we made a set of dies to form a bullet similar in shape the the LBT LFN, this was made with a turned jacket that had an open base that held a lead core - (Think and upside down Bear Claw bullet. We were making a monolithic solid already but a lead core for half the length upped total weight and shortened over-all length compared to solid copper or naval bronze slugs _Theoretical advantages and good campfire conversation! Anyway, someone brought this bullet to ATF attention and I had to do some answering about its uses (They never asked a single question about the true solid!) Apparently the marketing we had done emphasizing the penetrating qualities caught someones attention. It does not take a solid or solid type design to get noticed either. We took a turned jacket, with a very small cavity in the nose - just enough to reach about 20% of the way down the length of the bullet, then we bonded a small core section in the cavity and formed the nose - again similar to the LBT shape. We were looking to impart a small amount of expansion to cause a larger wound cavity, while still offering deep penetration on big game. THIS bullet set off someones radar as a potential vest beater, and we went down that same path again. Again ATF was good with the explanation. All this wind is my way of saying that YOU are not the one who is likely to have a legal issue. This is an established company selling through a reputable source. If ATF was going to have an issue with the design and construction it probably would already have come about. I think you can fire away and feel easy! I really appreciate the detailed response. Sounds like I am safe. I just want to be on the right side of the law. |
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Post by rickiesrevenge on Jun 24, 2021 20:15:26 GMT -5
Solid brass bullets in a handgun are illegal according to the feds. They got lumped into the armor piercing crap, think it was in the 90s. Solid copper or any other metal are legal. Specifically says brass
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Post by Quick Draw McGraw on Jun 24, 2021 20:45:19 GMT -5
Solid brass bullets in a handgun are illegal according to the feds. They got lumped into the armor piercing crap, think it was in the 90s. Solid copper or any other metal are legal. Specifically says brass Dang it... I was worried about this. Okay, I'll limit it to my .50 Beowulf then. The ballistics are the same so, not sure how that changes much. But you'll never catch me accusing the government of making sense! |
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Post by 98redline on Jun 28, 2021 17:59:08 GMT -5
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