Hard Cast - Gas Checked VS. Plain Base: School Me

[Quick Draw McGraw]

Hey guys,

I've always used gas checks because I was understanding that the plain base leave leading in the rifling, but lots of folks here use them. Tell me what I need to know about plain base bullets and reloading.

[webber]

I rarely, rarely use Gas Checked bullets . There is very little need for them in most calibers. But, I am not as knowledgeable as most on here. I used to use Gas Checked bullets in a 454 Casull when using "full power" loads but they aren't needed in lesser 454 Casull loads like many shoot and may not have been needed in the loads I used. In my opinion, my opinion only and nothing else there might be a real need only in some situations.
One must do what one thinks is right based on their observances and experiences. My opinions are based on what I have done and seen, not on hearsay and gunshop and shooting range blather by the self proclaimed "Experts".

[bradshaw]

Apr 14, 2021 0:23:57 GMT -5 Quick Draw McGraw said:

Hey guys,

I've always used gas checks because I was understanding that the plain base leave leading in the rifling, but lots of folks here use them. Tell me what I need to know about plain base bullets and reloading.

*****

A gas check is great when it prevents leading and/or increases accuracy. A bullet or bullet & load which neither leads nor suffers inaccuracy doesn’t need a gas check. I don’t consider velocity alone a determining factor. Lee and I have shot our cast POWER COAT .357 194 SWC GC with the gas check. We’ve threatened to try it without the gas check, but haven’t. It wouldn’t be a perfect comparison, as the bullet is cast with heel to receive gas check. The naked heel might inspire gas leak.

Pressure is a serious factor. The revolver and the target are the measure of the bullet.
David Bradshaw

[gjn]

This is Veral Smith’s advice from LBT Mold;

Gas Check or Plainbase?
We recommend gas checks without reservation under the following conditions:

“If velocities will exceed 1400 to 1600 fps, or estimated chamber pressure will exceed about 35,000/40,000 psi.
For velocities over 1000 fps if shooting sequence will be rapid enough to heat the barrel until uncomfortable for the hands, and especially so if atmosphere temperatures will exceed 90 deg F.
In revolvers with notably misaligned cylinder throats.
In almost all new handguns which haven’t had the bore smoothed by lapping. (Extensive jacketed bullet use helps smooth a little.)
For anyone who shoots so little that GC cost isn’t a concern, and especially so for beginners loading cast bullets.
Whenever optimum accuracy, and, or, ease of load development takes precedence over slight higher cost and production effort.
When desirable to use one bullet and load in several guns of the same caliber.”

I use gas checks on all my molds figuring at worst it doesn’t hurt and in most cases it probably helps in varying degrees.

[contender]

Talk about a subject that will get a lot of info.
Basically, it's not a cut-n-dried answer.
Leading in a barrel can be caused by many things. A gas check can help prevent it in many cases,, but it's not the only answer. Many of us use a PB bullet, w/o a gas check, and do not have any leading issues.
You have to spend time experimenting with alloy's, velocities, coatings, bore diameter, possible thread choke, rough forcing cone, to name a few to determine if a G/C bullet design is necessary.


In general, I tend to start with most of my cast bullets as a PB bullet, working on the alloy & velocity, (after knowing the bore diameter & throat dimensions,) to see what kind of accuracy I get. If things aren't performing to my satisfaction, I then try a G/C bullet & work up a bit in velocity.
In general, I work with as soft an alloy as I can, all while working up the pressure/velocity ranges, until the accuracy meets my expectations. If I get leading before I get there,, I increase the hardness a little to see if that cures it. After all that,, then the G/C designs are tried.
And as David has said; "The revolver & the target are the measure of the bullet."

[sixshot]

My 327's & my 357 Maximum bullets see gas checks because I run them like Corvettes. Also one 41 magnum bullet see's them because with the gas check I get very fine accuracy, not so without them. Most gas checks, 35 caliber or bigger are about $62 per thousand....yikes! I use the "other" guys gas checks, much cheaper! If you are shooting the Ray Thompson #429415 bullet you will be very hard pressed to find a more accurate bullet, cast or jacketed, but it must have a gas check to shine. You will waste a lot of bullets trying to out shoot it in a good 44 special or magnum, trust me.

Dick

[magnumwheelman]

my retired machinist buddy set up to cut them from aluminum cans & made the tooling to make aluminum gas checks for any of the bullets he cast that he felt needed a gas check...

[taffin]

Apr 14, 2021 0:23:57 GMT -5 Quick Draw McGraw said:

Hey guys,

I've always used gas checks because I was understanding that the plain base leave leading in the rifling, but lots of folks here use them. Tell me what I need to know about plain base bullets and reloading.

Every sixgun is a law unto itself. Some never lead hardly at all while others seem to pick up land if they are in the same room with a plain-based bullet.

[38 WCF]

I have stopped using them in my Handgun loads. My 357 Magnum M 686 shoots like a dream with Powder Coated bullets but shoots like a Nightmare with the same bullet without Powder Coat. I am thinking the Powder coat acts a bit like a gas check.

[jeffh]

Apr 14, 2021 13:53:42 GMT -5 sixshot said:

................Most gas checks, 35 caliber or bigger are about $62 per thousand....yikes!................

Dick

"YIKES!" is right!  Holy cow!

I much prefer to NOT use gas checks, and do not for MOST handgun applications, but I DO use them, especially in rifle applications - even for pistol-caliber rifles.

My personal battery is narrowed down to a few very well-behaved pieces which mostly don't require GCs.  Over the years, Ive experienced almost every caveat mentioned in this thread so far, and I've never kept a gun that forced me to use gas checks across the board.  Sometimes you can fiddle with the gun, load or bullet to get an ornery one to shoot without a GC and sometimes not.  Sometimes it's not worth the effort.

As I started paring down my battery, I bought tooling from Charles Darnall (Freechex III) for 22, 30 and 35 calibers.  When gas checks hit $30/k for 30s and 35s, I threw in the towel and bought the tools.  I don't suppose I use enough GCs to justify the expense ($110/caliber), but I also got tired of being at the mercy of panicked markets and "out of stock" labels.  I'm not reliant on the supply chain for one more component now.  Yes, it costs me extra time, but I set up the tooling and just punch out a hundred every time I have to stop and think about the next step on any other project I'm currently working on until I have a jar-full of 'checks.  If I had to punch out a thousand at once, I'd probably have to sell all my casting/reloading stuff to pay for an extended stay in a padded room.

I don't make or buy 44 GCs, because I'm no longer shooting a 44 Mag, and, again, I've sorted through a lot of guns over the years and only kept ones which did not require GCs when  got them, or which I weaned off of with some effort.  I have exactly TWO bullets for my TWO 44 Specials and they both get along with both.  Easy as that, right? 

NO! 

I've owned and fiddled with MANY, MANY 44 Specials and 44 moulds (as well as other calibers/cartridges) over the years to eventually put myself into this ideal situation, so don't ever feel "inadequate" or embarrassed that you NEED GCs on some of your bullets for some of your guns.  There are some folks out there (not here) who act like GCs are only needed by someone with inadequate experience or intelligence in casting/loading/shooting.

I'd follow all preceding advice in this thread and use them when you have to.  If you don't WANT to, fix the gun/mould/load/usage or move the gun and keep looking for one that doesn't require GCs or one which can be weaned off 'em with a reasonable expenditure of effort.  It's a long and expensive venture to narrow things down to just guns that don't require gas checks if you mean to do it in a short time.  It happened to me because I just kept keeping ones I didn't need GCs for over many years and eventually let go the ones that would simply not work without them.