Culling cast bullets

[Fowler]

So I have been casting for nearly 20 years now, Id like to think I cast a better than average bullets but as anyone who knows their stuff that is more about the molds and the alloy than the caster. I am a bit stubborn in that I ladle pour my bullets, I have nothing against the bottom pour pots except I have never been able to cast a consistent bullet with them.

I find LBT molds are far and away the easiest to cast with, light aluminum, they get hot and stay hot (I like my bullets right on the edge of frosty when I cast) and breath well so they fill out easy. Now all solid nosed bullets are easier to cast than any hollow point mold is, just less going on. Miha makes the best hollowpoint molds by far but they are simply not as easy to cast well as solid nosed molds are.

So after pre heating the mold, we start casting and the mold settles out a little, after 2 or 6 cycles of lead I find they start to turn out decent bullets. I notice that every mold likes to be poured a little different, some want a quick pour and go to the next cavity. Some need a long full pour for each cavity to push all of the air out of each cavity and to get the heals to fill. I generally set the end of the mold on the edge of the pot and start on the opposite end of the mold filling the first cavity, when full it will "push back" a bit as the lead stops flowing in as easily, then move to the next cavity without stopping the stream of lead and so on down the molds till the ladle is dry. If the ladle only has enough lead to fill 2 cavities then I start with the last two and fill those, redip and then fill the next two as needed. You get into a rhythm and a 20lb pot will disappear in no time.

Now the goal when you break the sprew off the mold should look like this, nice even heels that fill the mold to the edges.
Untitled by William Fowler, on Flickr

Not like this, the first bullet hasn't filled the cavity out completely, the third isn't full either, the second is very marginal, but the far one looks decent.
Untitled by William Fowler, on Flickr

For me the most likely causes are the mold didn't get a long enough pour into each cavity, venting is an issue, or the lead and/or pot isn't hot enough. No matter what I do some pours just are not as clean as others. I will cull my bullets generally before I size or powder coat them.

So this bring me to my discussion here, what constitutes a good bullet from a culled bullet destined for remelt?

Here is my understanding but I would love to hear other caster opinions on the subject:

I generally feel the heel of the bullet is 95% of the battle, the if heel is even, fills the mold completely, and isn't warped then the forwards parts of the bullet probably wont matter on a target. Yes we would like to see all of the bands of the bullet perfectly filled out, no lines in the bullets, no warps in the noses but unless we are doing our absolute best target work it is doubtful you will see it on a target.

Here we see a clean bullet on the left, all of the bands are filled out and the nose is perfect, the second bullet will probably shoot just fine although I personally would cull it, its danged ugly but now the bullet on the right isn't perfect but would likely pass muster for me.

Untitled by William Fowler, on Flickr

Untitled by William Fowler, on Flickr

So the questions I have is what constitutes a acceptable base for a quality bullet?

Here are 5 bullets that from left to right are getting progressively worse, bullet number 1 is fine and number 5 is a quick cull but in the middle lies the gray area, #2 has a slight "pull" on the right side, the 3 on the right are not filled out quite completely, not in the base nor the driving bands. Will they shoot? Sure, should they go back in the pot? What do you guys think?

Untitled by William Fowler, on Flickr

Untitled by William Fowler, on Flickr

Another common problem is flashing along the base, simply the lead flows past the base and under the sprew plate leaving tiny slivers of lead. The bullet on the right has a proper base and the left two have flashing.

Untitled by William Fowler, on Flickr

When powder coating these generally get mashed down when the bullets are being shaken and even if they don't they don't seem to cause my a whole lot of noticeable issues. Now this bullet has a much larger flashing sliver, generally this means the sprew plate has gotten lose but not always. I often find these tear off the base of the bullet with my fingernail very easily and really don't cause a lot of grief but to create this the base has to be a bit "deeper" than a perfect bullet will have so the base then holds more lead, the bullet is heavier and less consistent right? Should these just be culled as well?

Untitled by William Fowler, on Flickr

So of course this is a rabbit hole with no bottom, serious long range black powder shooters weigh and segregate their bullets after culling anything that doesn't appear absolutely perfect. But they are unlikely burn hundreds and hundreds or even thousands of rounds a year and a 5 1/2" handgun would be hard to prove it matters on anyway. I certainly am not as picky with 9mm ammo that is going to be shot for bulk plinking over say serious hunting bullets for my 475 Linebaugh for a upcoming elk hunt or if I was trying for something serious like silhouette shooting.

So what is everyone's thought on standards for acceptable handgun bullets? How picky does one get?

[bradshaw]

Bill.... excellent photo piece, and you broach an important experiment. Culls with nose flaws and heal flaws should be separated, resulting in three batches to target at minimum 50 yards and, hopefully, 100 yards. Nose damaged and heel damaged bullets to receive same powder & charge as your control bullets. Suggest five shot groups off the bag, producing thee 5-shot groups @ 50 & 100 yards. The targets will tell you more than any theorizing.

DYNAMIC BALANCE becomes more of a factor as distance increases, which is why 25 yards may tell you little or nothing.

Thus may we call this Bill Fowler’s Culling Cast Bullets, Part 1?
David Bradshaw

[dhd]

My own preference on culling is if the base isn't perfectly filled out, I'll drop that particular bullet in the sprue pan right then. When everything is up to my target temperature, I find that when the bases are perfect so are the noses. That doesn't mean I won't have what I consider a cull slip through but only a few for a 300-400 bullet session. I'm not interested in any particular volume when casting as I usually consider it an enjoyable task. Like you, I only use a ladle but I also pressure cast as that's the way I learned to do it. Works for me.

FWIW, I did start my casting journey pouring big bullets for my black powder cartridge rifle. That picky mindset carried over to my handgun bullets. I don't go to the trouble of weighing "lots" for the handguns but I will weigh a dozen or so from each casting session to see how I did.

[x101airborne]

I cull my bullets hard. Any rounded base, any incomplete nose and any rounded bands get sorted back to be melted again. I have had to throw away full batches before because I just wasn't happy with them. I look for an excuse to cull, not keep.

[bushog]

Curious about the flashing problem. I’ve never seen that thank goodness (yet).

[wheelguns]

Something that I do to prevent the flashing, is I keep a small rag with some 2 stroke oil on it. When I fill the mold for the first time, I cut the sprue, and before I dump the bullets, I wipe the top of the mold and the bottom and top of the sprue plate with this rag. This stops any lead from building up between the mold and the sprue plate, and keeps it clean. Then, it is just a matter of keeping the sprue plate properly adjusted.

I have also found that a little tin added to the melt will help with getting the bases properly filled out. This also helps give you good crisp lines on your bullets, and your lube grooves, and your hollowpoints. A small amount of tin goes a long way.

[taffin]

I have found bottom four pots work just fine if the mold is about 1 inch below the spout in the land is allowed to freely flow.

[boolitdesigner]

Arghhh...................

[ddixie884]

I have found, for me that one of the most important things to get good fill out is to have a generous sprue. This seems to allow the bullet to draw metal from the sprue as it cools and I personally try to pour a heavy continuous sprue from one end to the other on gang molds. I also tend to cast on the hot side and don't mind a bullet with a little frost.........

[matt56]

I have also found that bullets starting to frost are filled out the best, shiny bullets usually have rounded edges.

I will leave a few iffy bullets out so I have an even number when I’m all done. A little wrinkle in the body or one edge of a band that’s slightly rounded may get shot. A lot of times they clean up good in the sizer. If I have extra culls at the end I’ll just save them to remelt next time

[sixshot]

First off I know some guys who are really good bullet casters, they spend hours making the very best bullets they can possibly make & throw back a lot of very good bullets. They have good guns also yet some of them couldn't out shoot Stevie Wonder. These guys just enjoy the chase, they want things perfect, or even better!
Many years ago I guess I was like that but now that I'm older I find that I reject very few bullets. Some of that is because I'm probably a much better bullet caster than I was 50+ years ago & some of it is because I realize that I can only shoot an iron sighted six gun at a certain level at my age, no matter how good my bullets are, rant over.
I run my furnace very hot & what I look for is flat bases, that's it. If the bases are flat I'm pretty sure I've made a good bullet so I have very few rejects. When I'm done casting I'll randomly weigh 6-8 to make sure the weight is correct, or close & then I powder coat, bake & size.
I've found that once the alloy, mold & flow from the spout is correct I can cast without interruption for long periods of time and almost never throw out a bullet. With LBT or Ballisticast molds I seldom ever make a bad bullet once I'm up to temperature. With a Miha mold I will sometimes have to adjust the flow from the pot or adjust the sprue plate a bit to keep making good bullets because the mold will get a bit hot if I go too fast. I'll hold the mold up & check for any slight bit of daylight between the mold & the sprue plate & sometimes have to back off just a bit to close the gap.
You also have to lube the alignment pins & I use some 2 cycle oil to wipe the top of the mold & under side of the sprue plate from time to time. I also glance down the side of my Miha molds once in a while to make sure none of the pins have worked loose, if they have I snug them very gently.
I don't think there's any one certain way to make a good cast bullet, but it helps to start out watching an experienced caster & that speeds up the learning curve. Like most casters I often use 2 & sometimes even 3 molds at a time to keep the molds at the correct casting temps, you learn by experience. Casting should be fun, how you get there is up to you.
Shot this target today out the window of my Jeep at 15 yds. Eight rounds of 32 Long that I thought might be a bit too hot for my model 30 S&W so I shot them through my model 16-4 S&W 4" gun. This was 8 shots, 100 gr cast, PC with 3.0 grs of Bullseye.


Dick

[x101airborne]

How do yall deal with those tiny little e-clips that some molds want to lose every cast and other molds they stay on for ever? I swear I have the worst luck with those things.

[contender]

Well, I've done a bit of light experimenting with my cast bullets.
And,, I tend to try & get uniform bullets w/o flaws for the most part.
I'm also a bit "anal" about imperfect bullets.
As I cast,, I will cull any obvious imperfections I see. And any with bases that aren't square & round,, culled.
After I'm done,, and the bullets are cool, I use a magnifier head piece to hand sort & study my bullets. I usually cull about 10-15 out of 2-3 hundred for remelt.
But I also cull minor flaws into what I call my "practice & play" batch.
Basically a "Grade I" and a Grade II."

But I don't stop there.
I weigh all my bullets as well.
I sort into 1.0 grn lots.
My alloy is pretty consistent so I can usually plan on a "main" batch of a known weight. And I'll keep the good ones that are 1.0 grns higher or lower than my target weight.

And during that session,, I often find a few that are either over or under my 3.0 grn allowance.
Those go into the remelt pile.

Now,, I did a test last summer of a bullet,, using my "Grade I's" & a batch of "Grade II's".
Everything was equal,, except the "quality" of the bullet.

I found that at 100 yds,, there was a difference in the 2 grades.

I recently rounded out a casting session of the .357 Bradshaw-Martin bullet for the Maxi.
I have 2400 Grade I bullets of my target weight. They have been powder coated & sized, gas checked & stored.
I have an additional 200 or so of the same for me to test.
I have about 500-600 each of Grade I's,, that weighed 1.0 grns over, or under the target weight.
And, I have about 500-600 of Grade II's as well. (They also got weighed before saving.)

I plan on doing the same testing with these bullets as well.
When I do,, I'll post my results.

But,, with all that,, my desires are to get a bullet I can fully trust to be as good as I can,, in case I choose to use that bullet when hunting. I want to know that my ammo is as good as I can make it,, so that if something happens,, I can eliminate the ammo as a problem. Hunting,, anything deserves a clean kill, and a poor bullet can result in a poor hit.

JMO and it's what works for me.

[leadhound]

Feb 22, 2021 20:36:11 GMT -5 sixshot said:

Dick

If you was aimin' for the redd'n you missed it. LOL!

I just had to! I couldn't have done that at point blank range. But I have fun tryin! Good shootin friend, maybe if I keep practicing?

[contender]

I haven't had many of those tiny E clips get lost. And Miha has supplied spares with every mold I've bought.