A Question About Smith & Wesson Double Actions

[Quick Draw McGraw]

Back in 1994, my father decided to buy a snub-nose .357 Magnum. His shopping lead him to buy a Smith & Wesson Model 19. When he was purchasing it, the salesman gave him the following warning:

"Now, I know it says '.357 Magnum' on the gun, but this revolver really wasn't built to shoot a lot of .357 Magnum. It's really more of a .38 Special+P gun that can handle SOME .357 Magnum. Keep that in mind because if you shoot mainly .357 Magnum, eventually the frame is going to crack. You should stick to mainly shooting .38's for practice."

That always stuck with both my father and I. The gun was stolen around 2002 so we never did find out what durability it had. But it's not the last time I heard that statement about S&W.

I have two questions for you gentleman:
1.) Was there or is there any truth to this warning or was this salesman full of crap?
2.) If it was true at the time, the 90's and earlier, is it still true today, or has S&W upped their game?

I don't like to believe rumors unless I can verify they are true. So, please enlighten me as to whether or not this rumor is true, false, or maybe a half-truth. Thank you for your time and responses.

[mike454]

Thought I remembered hearing about a number of 19s with cracked forcing cones. not really sure if it was the problem it was made out to be. They were also supposed to beat themselves loose with full 357 loads at a somewhat accelerated pace. I've certainly heard enough about the problems that I believe it's more than a myth. 357 SAAMI pressure was reduced in the 90s and I'm not sure if this was in response to problems with the K frame or J frame 357s.

[bamagreg]

There was an awful lot of Model 19's sold and shot a lot. I do believe they were prone to shooting "loose" after many (thousands) rounds of full house 357. I believe this was the whole reason that the L-Frames were introduced.

[x101airborne]

My model 19 cracked at the forcing cone. Not more than 1k rounds of standard pressure 158 grain loads. Replaced it with a 686.

[rjm52]

19s/66s were not as durable as the 27s/28s and were made for LEOs to practice with .38 Specials and carry .357s... Unfortunately things changed and LEOs started having to qualify with .357s and the K-frames just were not up to it...that is why S&W came out with the slightly larger L-frame.

My first centerfire revolver was a 1970 vintage 19-3 4". Put 10K rounds of mostly cast reloads that were in the 1200 fps range. It then went back to S&W for a tune-up and fired another 10K before it was sold in 1980.

Factory jacketed loads will take a toll on Ks more than the larger frames...

Bob

[taffin]

I have two questions for you gentleman:
1.) Was there or is there any truth to this warning or was this salesman full of crap?

YES. BILL JORDAN SAID USE IT WITH .38s FOR PRACTISE

2.) If it was true at the time, the 90's and earlier, is it still true today, or has S&W upped their game?

NO WORRIES TODAY

[oddshooter]

I wouldn't let the possibility stop me from purchasing another 19.  

[oddshooter]

It's still one of my Favorite shooters.

The balance, weight, size; all seem to fit me. I shoot my 6" 19's better than most of the others.

I intend to continue shooting it till it gives up the ghost. I don't shoot fire breathing dragon 357mag loads; mine are 158g cast hitting between 900 and 1200fps. I also don't push hundreds of rounds through it; that's what M28 and GP100 are for. I don't shoot 38's in it; I have model 10, 14, and 15 for that.
I'm incredibly lucky that my accumulation allows me to use the right tool for the right job.

My M19's group under an inch at 25 yards if I do my part. Of course, that took 4 dozen recipes to discover which combos it liked best. At this point, I just have to hold it and my confidence goes up.
Can't give that up so I live with the risk of having to replace a barrel.


Prescut

[matt56]

I believe there to be some truth behind the K frame longevity issue when shooting 357 magnums. This thread here was posted a little while ago and is very informative regarding the issue. I haven't experienced any issues but I have enough different guns that no single one gets shot the most.

singleactions.proboards.com/thread/27862/frame-longevity

That being said I still really like the K frame 38 special and 357 magnum. In that thread I posted that I owned 7 K frames. That was incorrect, I forgot about 2 of them.

[bogusbill]

I have mostly smiths. I haven't personally witnessed it but have read the stories. As I understand they do say to practice with .38`s and carry .357`s.
Most often they say the trouble is shooting light bullets/hot loads. Read shooting 158 grains is much better on the gun. Supposedly the 586 was made to cure the problem. The problem was said to be the bottom of the breech end of the barrel was ground flat to clear the crane lockup etc. Where there is smoke there's fire. Supposedly few people have/had the problem that dont shoot tons of 110 or 120 grain hot loads. Personally I dont like the heavy useless ejector housing that go`s full length to the end of the barrel on the 586`s they issued us years ago. I have a 1 of 300 66-3 with a 3" barrel made for Lew Horton. I have owned a model 19 that is the same gun. I also own two pythons and a 5" model 27-2. I haven't used the 27 in ages as it is un necessarily heavier. Truth is I more often pack a 3" smith model 36 with the pencil barrel. A lot lighter than the 66, same barrel length and I use .38`s in both anyway.
i.postimg.cc/KjM1Xhyb/Oct-2012-016.jpg
postimg.cc/2LbBC8HX

[jack]

I purchased a round butt 2-1/2" M19, and a 4" square butt M19 New, together, on my birthday in 1983. Both have digested A LOT of ammo. Most of it Full house loads with either 2400, or H110, under either 358429, or 358156, and for a time the LBT 180gr FN. They are both still ticking. They have both taken a lot of game, and I still trust my life to them on a pretty regular basis. - Just my 2 cents

[ezekiel38]

Tricks to maintain longevity of the 19 with magnum loads.Do not shoot dragon slaying 125 grain JHPs with ball powder. Keep the forcing cone CLEAN. Debris causes buildup of pressure at the highest pressure point.

I was a police firearms instructor during the era of HOT 357 loads and the leading loads of the day were Remington and Federal 357 125 JHPs at 1400 fps out of a 4" revolver. SCOTUS in the late 70s ruled that police had to practice with an equivalent to their carry load.

The reason for the SCOTUS ruling was a LEO responded to an armed robbery in a barber shop. Combat distances, robber opens fire at cop, cop shoots back kills two and wounds another and misses the robber. At the lawsuit the cop admits that he practiced with target ammo but carried Federal 125 gr 357s in his roscoe. Not good for anyone involved but the robber. Carrying a semi'auto solved the ammo power level problem as SAs require a narrow pressure band for the firearm to function properly.

The 19 had the "clipped" barrel at the bottom of the forcing cone. The new ones do not. The new ones are built a lot stronger in the barrel, the cylinder lockup, and the extractor mechanism.

I shoot my Model 19 sparingly with Remington Golden Sabers 125 grain which is it's carry load. This is a reduced 357 loading of 1250fps. They're accurate and work in my 19 and my two Kimber K6s.

[AxeHandle]

We all know metallurgy has improved through the years. Ammo has been mellowed a bit too. That said I'm too old to change. My K frames are 38/32/22. My L and N frames are for 357 magnums..

[ddixie884]

Nothing fits like a 3" K-frame and I like 158gr LSWCs at 1100 to 1200fps...............