Aggie01
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Post by Aggie01 on Apr 25, 2020 19:47:45 GMT -5
Anyone have a source for 400gr .452 bullets?
Just got an Encore barrel in .460, looking for slow thumpers.
It has 1in 16" twist, I want to find out what the biggest bullet is that I can stabilize at 1K fps.
Thinking about sending them through a suppressor.
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Post by silcott on Apr 25, 2020 21:47:46 GMT -5
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Post by kaytod on Apr 25, 2020 22:21:47 GMT -5
I have swaged the RCBS 45-405 FN down to .452 for use in the 460 Smith with success. I was tasked by a friend to find out why he couldn't get his early 460 Encore barrel to shoot well.
Works well if you have the mold and cast. If not, Beartooth or Cast Performance are the only ones that come to mind right now with heavies in the 400 grain area.
Short story
His problems: He only shot 45 colt and 454 casull ammo, not 460 ammo, which contributed to his dismal groups.
My initial shooting: Upon receiving the barrel, acquiring some factory 460 with 200 grain Hornady FTX, groups were nothing to write home about. Cases were horribly sooty with lots of thick powder residue on the outside of the cases.
Initial investigation: Barrel had .625 of freebore at the end of the chamber before touching the rifling. Don't know if this is common to all TC barrels or just his.
Solution: Resized the aforementioned bullets to .452, as they would still be in the case upon reaching the rifling. Combined with the additional bullet weight and dwell time, should cause the cases to expand and seal the chamber eliminating the soot problems and create a bit more support for the bullet to be enter the rifling straighter.
Result: Two loads were made. One with H4198 to a tune of 1350 FPS, showed a bit over 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 with iron sights and a cross-eyed shooter on the handle. I didn't think that was bad considering the factory ammo in this gun printed about 10" at 100. Barrel was returned to it's owner and he liked the accuracy but the recoil was far too stiff. Second load was made with Trail Boss powder for ( as I remember ) about a 900 fps load and similar accuracy. Barrel was returned, Owner liked the combination and was happy.
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Aggie01
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Post by Aggie01 on Apr 26, 2020 14:43:11 GMT -5
Initial investigation: Barrel had .625 of freebore at the end of the chamber before touching the rifling. Don't know if this is common to all TC barrels or just his. I appreciate the heads up. Mine (TC branded Katadhin) was over .70. I hadn't even unwrapped it yet. I have returned it, and will be spending the extra coin for a barrel from MGM. Totally forgot about Beartooth - thank you! The MGM barrel will be a 1:20, not the 1:16 of the TC. We 'll just have to wring it out. |
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cmillard
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Post by cmillard on Apr 26, 2020 18:57:49 GMT -5
There are also several 420 grain bullets that could be sized down to .452. GT bullets has some for the .45-70 that look nice
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Post by bradshaw on Apr 26, 2020 19:56:31 GMT -5
"Initial investigation: Barrel had .625 of freebore at the end of the chamber before touching the rifling. Don't know if this is common to all TC barrels or just his.”
----kaytod
*****
T/C chambered Contender barrels with freebore as a hedge against hotrod loading. Wouldn’t surprise me if the practice continued with the Encore. Also, a tip-open action lacks the calming power of a bolt action to muscle a round into the chamber.
David Bradshaw
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edk
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Post by edk on Apr 26, 2020 21:23:55 GMT -5
The MGM barrel will be a 1:20, not the 1:16 of the TC. We 'll just have to wring it out. Wasn't the S&W twist progressive or "gain twist"? Now that they and TC are one (and have been so for over a decade), one would think that this would trickle down to benefit TC barrels. |
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Aggie01
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Post by Aggie01 on Apr 26, 2020 22:13:09 GMT -5
My understanding of the gain twist in the S&W revolvers is that it was done to lessen the instantaneous torque when the bullet engaged the rifling going full speed.
Reportedly it was destroying optics. Shouldn't be needed in a rifle barrel...provided you don't have caliber and a half of freebore.
I have now also found a few reports postulating that the terrible throats in the TC barrels are due to using a reamer designed for a wheelgun cylinder.
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Post by x101airborne on Apr 27, 2020 6:46:58 GMT -5
I have around 10 Encore barrels. They all have significant free bore. The only one that has less free bore is my 444 Marlin, but it still has quite a bit.
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Post by Aeroscout on Apr 27, 2020 8:02:35 GMT -5
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Post by Quick Draw McGraw on Apr 28, 2020 11:01:57 GMT -5
Grafs.com will sometimes have the Double Tap 400 grain .452" WFNGC
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Aggie01
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Post by Aggie01 on Apr 29, 2020 11:02:16 GMT -5
The better I think this project out, the more I am heading toward a .454 Casull chambering and getting a 1:16 twist.
Let the length of the Casull case make up for the bullet intrusion, but still running at Ruger .45 Colt pressures.
My can is a 45 ACP can that can handle 44 Mag/45 Colt (SilencerCo Octane 45 w/ stainless baffles)) as long as the barrel is longer than 16".
I'm not seeing a lot of downloaded data out there for the .460, and the Casull should be able to do the 400g slugs at 1000 (preferred if they stabilize) to 1300 (as fast as I care to run hard cast slugs anyway) , especially in a rifle barrel.
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