.414 SuperMag 250 grain jacketed input

[madbadger]

Guys,

I'm entering some new territory here and wanted some input before I mess up a good thing....


I've found a jacketed 250 grain softpoint that I really like & I want to work up a load for the .414. Trouble is - for me at least - there is of course no data for either cast or jacketed for a .414 at that weight. That is for me, both part fun and part frustration.

I've gone thru a comparison of both .357 Mag & Maximum as well as .44 Mag and .445 SuperMag and compared identical loadings as best I can. In the .357, Maximum loads run 39% increase on a grain basis, and .445 runs 29% greater on a grain basis. The loads I've made are a 21% increase over like loads in .41 Mag using same powder, bullet, etc.

I've run the .414 water capacity, seating depth for both the 250 cast and jacketed softpoint, etc., etc. & have also gone thru the "Load from a Disk" software.

So far, I've loaded - but not shot - the following recipe:
Starline .414 brass, uniformed to accept rifle primers
250 grain jacketed softpoint seated to .457 depth for a COAL of 1.920
20 - 22 grains H110

According to Load from a Disk, the 20 grains is about 80% load density & 22 grains should be at 85%. Load fa Disk says 23.2 grains is "high pressure - for reference only". Guess I'm wondering if the 22 grains is pushing my luck. LfaDisk says the 22 grain load should generate 44104 CUP or 51515 psia which I understand is within parameters for the gun.

Guess I just wanted to check with you all - who have much, much more wildcatting experience than I to see if the load is reasonable or if I'm knocking on a door I don't want opened.

Also, any other 250 grain (cast or jacketed) or heavier data any of you have EXPERIENCE with would be appreciated for my study. I've found a few on other forums, but I don't really trust the sources or they seem to be trying to show what they can - supposedly - do.

I hunt and shoot in the temperature extremes here in NE Kansas so loads must be safe from -20 to 110.

I've plenty of load data for 210 jacketed, and have a bunch of those worked up as well. I'm just needing some points of reference for loads that are difficult to find or unpublished.

Press On, Regardless.

MadBadger

[madbadger]

As I noted under the Gallery thread, with the drifts the way they are I can't get to my pasture range. I couldn't take the waiting any longer so with just a few minutes of daylight I took an empty holiday wine box to the backyard and let a few 210 loads fly.

While my shivering, off hand shots are only 30 yard paperplate'ish, the fireball of 27.2 grains H110 pushing a 210 XTP was certainly fun!

Press On, Regardless,

MadBadger

[Aggie01]

I don't have any .414 experience, but :
1) shouldn't H110/W296 be run closer to 100% load density than 80%? I was unde the impression that loads less than 90% load density had the possibility of detonation/pressure spikes/erratic performance with those powders.
2) AH test fired my 1.4" .41 last week with a 265 over 18 grains H110, and plans to go up in charge weight after the new front sight is made.

[madbadger]

I understand the same regarding loading density for H110/W296. Regrettably, I honestly didn't recall this at the time of loading. I guess the good news is that I only loaded 6 of each & haven't shot any yet.

I have to admit that I've not yet checked the actual load density, but rather referenced the load density number as projected by Load from a Disk. LfaD "suggests" a range of suitable burn rate powders & typical load density associated with those burn rates.

Guess this is all a prime example of why I've asked the question. Everything I find for info is "sorta" close. I admire the guys who have these kinds of details all figured out, and I'm trying to learn the ropes as well. Just don't want to convince myself I've got it figured out, only to make an expensive mistake.

MadBadger

[madbadger]

Thanks Aggie! You got me thinking again & I couldn't sleep 'til I found out for sure.

Here's what I found - correct me where I'm wrong:
Internal length of my Starline .414 cases = 1.407
Internal radius = .2025
Internal volume thus = .1812

Bullet radius = .2045
Bullet seating depth = .457
Seated bullet volume = .060

Case free volume = .1212

20 grain H110 volume = .0803
Load density = 66.2%

22 grain H110 volume = .0913
Load density = 75.3%

Now, I can see that by not doing the math first (presuming I've not made error there as well.....) I've unwittingly violated a number of basic handloading rules.

Working on a load density volume basis, the 90% "rule" of 110/296 would dictate that I start at 27 grains H110 (91% load density). This is 46% greater than similar .41 Mag loads for 250 grain bullets. Granted, there I've not calculated actual load density for the Mag as I have for the SuperMag, but one can only presume that the Hodgdon manual takes its own advice for load density of the .41 Mag.

Then again, it's past midnite and my mind is just rambling now...

MadBadger

p.s. The above is simply the tired rambling of a semi-literate (?!?) beginning wildcatter trying to make sense of the idiosyncracies of handloading and is not to be construed as actual load data. Very likely, it is only another waste of bandwidth...

[groo]

Groo here
How about a 90% loading of ww680 or AA1680???

[Lee Martin]

WW680 is long gone, but AA1680 is pretty much the same thing. I shoot it almost exclusively in my 375 and 414 SuperMags. I'll look up and post some loads when I get home tonight.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com

[kings6]

When I had Alan do my 414 I dug up as much load data as I could on it for starters. JT has several loads mentined in his books and a man named Todd Spotti (sp) did an article on it. I will see if I can dig up the loads they discuss later on today and post them here.

[madbadger]

Kings6,

Yep, I've already been through that info. Mr. Taffins is exclusive to 210 grain - if I recall correctly, and Mr. Spotti's is similar with the exception of some heavy cast.

While I've been handloading for years, I've always been able to pretty much follow established load data.

I'd like to try a really nice 250 grain jacketed softpoint in the .414 and am not confident in how to arrive at safe loads, using the limited published data available. I know I shouldn't interchange cast data and use for jacketed, and so have arrived at vapor lock if you will.....

[kings6]

On page 197 of Big Bore Handguns JT talks of using 26 gns of H110 with Cast Performance Bullets 255 GC LBT bullet for over 1600 fps. Based on his data my initial loading which, as Alan said shoots like a lazer, is 25 grains of H110 for the Lasercast 265 gn GC. In my five shot gun, this load shoots really nice and flat without too much recoil.

[madbadger]

Thanks Kings6. I guess I missed the text and was too focused on the table on 196.

I'll check it out tonight to see what else I've missed....

[madbadger]

Just FYI for those who were following this thread......

This is the new 240 HP version of the softpoint mentioned (this in the guise of .41 Mag).



Anxious to try it out in the .414 now that I finally have some 1680......

Lee, any luck finding your 1680 data? I hate to be a pain....... (but I'm apparently willing to be )

See my other post in this section if the bullets interest you. It's an unsolicited plug for a great guy.

MadBadger

[jjvw]

Feb 15, 2010 17:40:44 GMT -5 madbadger said:

Just FYI for those who were following this thread......

This is the new 240 HP version of the softpoint mentioned (this in the guise of .41 Mag).






MadBadger

What is this bullet and who makes it?

[madbadger]

It is a 240 grain JHP with double cannelure. Also available is a 250 grain soft point.

Joe Cullison
Outlaw Bullets

[e-mail]

Feel free to contact him for more info. Great guy and had the pleasure to do business with him several times.

Believe I've posted some targets here or another forum using his bullets and I'm very satisfied.

MadBadger

[jjvw]

Thanks mad badger