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Post by Encore64 on Oct 28, 2019 12:20:49 GMT -5
We probably all have some revolvers that have an endshake issue. I have this fixed on all my customs, but some of my factory guns still have a small gap between the front bushing and frame.
Decided to find a none gunsmith solution and did. This one worked so well I wanted to share it on the forum.
Many of you probably already know about these assorted thickness shims. But for those of you that don't and are OCD like me, visit this website...
I'll surely add more of these products simply because they work great.
Triggershims.com
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rkrcpa
.30 Stingray
Posts: 259
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Post by rkrcpa on Oct 28, 2019 13:03:27 GMT -5
I have been using these shims for quite some time on my Blackhawk. They take a beating and get worn out after awhile but they definitely do the job.
One issue, depending upon how much endshake you have, can be gap spitting since by their nature the barrel/cylinder gap is increased by their presence. I would like to find a permanent solution for my Blackhawk, something that adds material to the rear of the cylinder rather than the front, if at all possible.
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Post by potatojudge on Oct 28, 2019 13:07:07 GMT -5
Has anybody used a gas ring stretcher?
I’d gladly send my cylinders out to be stretched to my specified length the way we send them out to have throat work.
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Post by Encore64 on Oct 28, 2019 13:36:04 GMT -5
I have been using these shims for quite some time on my Blackhawk. They take a beating and get worn out after awhile but they definitely do the job. One issue, depending upon how much endshake you have, can be gap spitting since by their nature the barrel/cylinder gap is increased by their presence. I would like to find a permanent solution for my Blackhawk, something that adds material to the rear of the cylinder rather than the front, if at all possible. Few things to remember... If those shims aren't taking the beating, then something else is. As you say, the shims can be replaced. I had a couple revolvers with tiny barrel gaps, but too much endshake. Since I didn't want the cylinder face hitting the back of the barrel, these were a lifesaver. |
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Post by bradshaw on Oct 28, 2019 14:10:18 GMT -5
I have been using these shims for quite some time on my Blackhawk. They take a beating and get worn out after awhile but they definitely do the job. One issue, depending upon how much endshake you have, can be gap spitting since by their nature the barrel/cylinder gap is increased by their presence. I would like to find a permanent solution for my Blackhawk, something that adds material to the rear of the cylinder rather than the front, if at all possible. Few things to remember... If those shims aren't taking the beating, then something else is. As you say, the shims can be replaced. I had a couple revolvers with tiny barrel gaps, but too much endshake. Since I didn't want the cylinder face hitting the back of the barrel, these were a lifesaver. ***** The front and rear hubs of a Ruger single action cylinder act as thrust bearings. Rducing the area of ratchet contact against standing breech concentrates endshake (hammering) to a smaller area. Ruger frames are strong and hard, the cylinder is strong & hard, and a cylinder with nearly any endshake survives a hefty amount of magnum firing without effect. As all here recognize, a cylinder allowed to slop back & forth acts like a slide hammer. Pipsquaek round will never notice, but earthquake cartridges eventually cause penning. Smith & Wesson has long used stool to swage the cylinder axle of the yoke----stretch the yoke----to eliminate endshake. Lee has over 4,000 of up-loaded 525 grain bullets through a .357 Maximum he converted to .50----without developing endshake. Several years ago, I think it was here on Singleactions, there was a discussion of stretching the hub of a Ruger single action. I am not aware of Ruger doing any such thing. I’ve never had an endshake problem on a Ruger single action and have handled few. I would be leary of cold-working a Ruger cylinder, and would think stretching the hub difficult. David Bradshaw |
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rkrcpa
.30 Stingray
Posts: 259
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Post by rkrcpa on Oct 28, 2019 14:25:33 GMT -5
Few things to remember... If those shims aren't taking the beating, then something else is. As you say, the shims can be replaced. I had a couple revolvers with tiny barrel gaps, but too much endshake. Since I didn't want the cylinder face hitting the back of the barrel, these were a lifesaver. ***** The front and rear hubs of a Ruger single action cylinder act as thrust bearings. Rducing the area of ratchet contact against standing breech concentrates endshake (hammering) to a smaller area. Ruger frames are strong and hard, the cylinder is strong & hard, and a cylinder with nearly any endshake survives a hefty amount of magnum firing without effect. As all here recognize, a cylinder allowed to slop back & forth acts like a slide hammer. Pipsquaek round will never notice, but earthquake cartridges eventually cause penning. Smith & Wesson has long used stool to swage the cylinder axle of the yoke----stretch the yoke----to eliminate endshake. Lee has over 4,000 of up-loaded 525 grain bullets through a .357 Maximum he converted to .50----without developing endshake. Several years ago, I think it was here on Singleactions, there was a discussion of stretching the hub of a Ruger single action. I am not aware of Ruger doing any such thing. I’ve never had an endshake problem on a Ruger single action and have handled few. I would be leary of cold-working a Ruger cylinder, and would think stretching the hub difficult. David Bradshaw I know Brownells sells a tool to stretch the gas ring and I have considered that as a possibility. But, if I go that route the cylinder gap would be opened up excessively necessitating the removal of the barrel so that it can be set back to close the gap. I'm not really to fond of that as the gun is an accurate shooter. I see that Dave Clements advertises a bushing for the rear of the cylinder to tighten things up, that may be my better option as I haven't seen any other methods available to address the issue. |
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Post by bradshaw on Oct 28, 2019 14:44:12 GMT -5
rkrcpa.... the Dave Clements option sounds worth a try. As for the cylinder gap... combustion forces CYLINDER FACE and BARREL FACE apart. No way you can hold gap less than what it is.
Sequence runs something like this:
1) Hammer fall, cylinder goes forward.
2) Primer ignition, primer tries to back out of pocket, at the same time thrusting case forward.
3) Powder ignites, thrusting bullet forward, case rearward.
4) Gas venting cylinder/barrel gap slams cylinder rearward, reseating case in chamber.
5) If there is endshake, cylinder may bounce back & forth.
David Bradshaw
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Post by Encore64 on Oct 28, 2019 14:59:55 GMT -5
rkrcpa.... the Dave Clements option sounds worth a try. As for the cylinder gap... combustion forces CYLINDER FACE and BARREL FACE apart. No way you can hold gap less than what it is. Sequence runs something like this:1) Hammer fall, cylinder goes forward. 2) Primer ignition, primer tries to back out of pocket, at the same time thrusting case forward. 3) Powder ignites, thrusting bullet forward, case rearward. 4) Gas venting cylinder/barrel gap slams cylinder rearward, reseating case in chamber. 5) If there is endshake, cylinder may bounce back & forth. David Bradshaw Of course, this is all true. Dave Clements' rear cylinder bushing is for guns that have worn to the point that rims are rubbing. On most of my guns I hone the rachet back to proper spacing for rims of my chosen brass, new bushing in front to correct endshake, then set barrel back to .002" gap. These shims are great for certain applications though. |
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Post by wheelguns on Oct 28, 2019 15:28:46 GMT -5
I have a new model blackhawk in .357. When it was new and you pushed the cylinder forward it would hit the barrel stub. A shim stopped this, but I hated that shim. Every time the cylinder was removed, it was a struggle to line it up. I am sure there is a trick. I would put a very small drop of blue loctite on the cylinder to hold the shim in place. I never was happy with the gun so I sent it off to Bobby Tyler for a redo. I probably could have sent it to ruger for repair, but I wanted to do some other things to it anyway.
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Post by Ken O'Neill on Oct 28, 2019 15:33:41 GMT -5
Has anybody used a gas ring stretcher? I’d gladly send my cylinders out to be stretched to my specified length the way we send them out to have throat work. Yes, I've used one, and it works. |
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Post by potatojudge on Oct 28, 2019 19:06:15 GMT -5
I have Jim Stroh’s personal 44 magnum Bisley.
He reamed the base pin hole in the cylinder to accept a Colt style bushing that he trimmed to eliminate end shake. BC gap wasn’t an issue since he fit a new barrel.
The whole gun is perfectly built, tuned, and finished. If he chose that solution I believe it must be a good one.
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edk
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,118
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Post by edk on Oct 28, 2019 19:22:04 GMT -5
I also like the idea of machining in the Colt-style bushing, I discussed this with Alan Harton and his solution is to TIG weld a little extra material on the nose of the cylinder and finish it in the lathe. I'm not a good enough welder to do that!
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Post by seminolewind on Oct 28, 2019 19:57:05 GMT -5
I have Jim Stroh’s personal 44 magnum Bisley. He reamed the base pin hole in the cylinder to accept a Colt style bushing that he trimmed to eliminate end shake. BC gap wasn’t an issue since he fit a new barrel. The whole gun is perfectly built, tuned, and finished. If he chose that solution I believe it must be a good one. I have a SBH 44 Mag from Mr. Stroh that also has the Colt style bushing installed. The bushing has backed out of the base pin hole a couple of thousandths and is almost tying up the cylinder rotation. The gun will function, and is astoundingly accurate, but needs some attention to reseat the bushing. Mr. Stroh has retired, so I need to find someone who can fix this. |
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Post by Encore64 on Oct 28, 2019 20:14:07 GMT -5
And that's the joy of these shims. They "patch" that kind of problem until a solution is found.
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Post by kaytod on Oct 28, 2019 21:16:18 GMT -5
One of the best things to keep a well fitting cylinder form developing end shake is to always, I mean, ALWAYS keep a drop of heavy oil or light grease on the nose and ratchet of the cylinder. This acts as a hydraulic damper to eliminate battering.
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