Joe S.
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Joe S. on Sept 16, 2019 16:24:49 GMT -5
With my six guns, I get mixed results with cast bullets. I get pretty consistent results with jacketed bullets but i keep on trying cast. I have been casting my own too, to try and get a better bullet. I would say maybe it is my cast bullets but i get the same moxed results with commercial cast.
Today i was shooting my 44 Bis Hunter. Last year at 75 yards, that gun shot about 3” groups off a rest. Today i couldnt get it to group better than about 6” at 50 yards with the same load. I switched to a jacketed bullet and other than a flyer, it shot a nice little group of about 2.5”.
I am feeling a bit frustrated today with cast bullets and thinking of switching back to jacketed for hunting and longer than plinking ranges. I could sell all my molds and casting equipment and probably buy enough jacketed bullets to keep me in business for a long time.
Has anyone out there given up on cast bullets? Do you regret your decision?
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Post by wheelguns on Sept 16, 2019 16:34:41 GMT -5
Are you using the correct expanders when loading cast? Are you sizing your cast to the throat size of your revolver? Fit is king in my book. If you are not expanding your cases with a lyman m-die or the correct size noe expander, your case will swage your bullets down in size, and all your hard work is wasted. Don’t give up! It is probably something simple. Maybe your alloy is too hard. Since casting my own, I have gotten better accuracy out of all of my guns. I hope things work out for you, and if I can be of any help let me know!
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Post by 98redline on Sept 16, 2019 16:49:32 GMT -5
A couple of thoughts after my experiences with my 44 Bis Hunter and the downright awful performance with cast bullets after I bought it.
1) I found mine had some thread choke where the barrel screwed into the frame and some additional restriction under the rollmark near the center of the barrel. --100 firelapping shots took out both restrictions and left me with a mirror smooth tapered bore.
2) Bumping up to bullets sized .432" gave me the best accuracy. In a pinch I can make .431" work, but anything smaller than that and accuracy suffers.
I have also found that after firelapping it will shoot properly sized cast bullets as accurately as jacketed.
I don't cast my own bullets and all of my samples thus far have been from Beartooth bullets, however before you go pulling your hair out looking for a problem with your bullets, take a look at the gun and see if there is something like I described above.
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Post by leadhound on Sept 16, 2019 17:10:48 GMT -5
I agree with these two above, bullet size is crucial as well as hardness, barrel condition any constrictions, and also throat size in your cylinder, if bullet is sized right for barrel then squeezed down at the throat it's now too small for the barrel.
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Post by boatswainsmate on Sept 16, 2019 17:50:57 GMT -5
Are you making your own alloy? Are you Lubing or Powder Coating? What type of bullet sizer are you using? Air cooling, water dropping, or oven treating your bullets?
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nicholst55
.375 Atomic
Retired, twice.
Posts: 1,043
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Post by nicholst55 on Sept 16, 2019 18:26:21 GMT -5
Also, nearly all commercial cast bullets are WAY too hard for 85% of handgun applications. They will not obturate to seal the bore, and gas cutting and leading are the natural results. Ruger's .44s generally have properly dimensioned chamber throats, so definitely check for thread choke/constriction. Once your bullets are swaged down to fit through the constriction, they won't bump up to seal the bore again.
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Post by sixshot on Sept 16, 2019 19:18:44 GMT -5
nicholst55 nailed it. Most commercial cast bullets are too hard. It's a rare six gun that won't shoot cast bullets but sometimes you have a little work to do, most times nothing other than load development but other times it can be bullet fit, some thread restriction as mentioned, etc. But, you said last year your gun shot just fine at 75 yds & this year it won't, that seems odd if nothing has changed, because something has changed!
I sure wouldn't give up on cast bullets, pin gauge your throats, maybe slug your bore, for sure see if you can shoot some softer alloy bullets. A gun & bullet that shot last year should absolutely shoot this year. Don't give up.
Dick
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Joe S.
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Joe S. on Sept 16, 2019 19:48:15 GMT -5
Thanks yall. I also talked to Fermin today. He suggested the scope may be broken. I just thought it strange that the last load i shot (jacketed) shot the best of all three.
The bullets i cast were sized with a Lee sizer. The expander i used was just a universal Lee case mouth expander. Basically i flare the case mouth and don’t expand the rest of the case (better neck tension?). I am not sure of the alloy but i am gonna say probably wheel weights. Air cooled, then powder coated. And I got to thinking about the Keiths. I may have even cast them. If i did, those are pan lubed with a mix of beeswax, petroleum jelly, and maybe alox?
I have not checked the dimensions on this gun. It shot so good last year, i didn’t think it needed it. I am gonna load more and pull the scope and try again. I havent fired it as much since deer season as I have my other guns. I have spent a lot of time with my Single Sixes and Seven this spring and summer. That is probably the biggest part of it.
I’ve calmed down some since posting that. I was pretty frustrated. Thanks for the advice.
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Joe S.
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Joe S. on Sept 16, 2019 20:06:13 GMT -5
I just scrubbed the bore. No leading whatsoever. Of course the last 12 rounds i fired was jacketed. Maybe it scrubbed the bore for me.
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Post by wheelguns on Sept 17, 2019 3:25:47 GMT -5
I use the lee universal case expander, but I use a noe insert in them. I size my case .002” smaller than the bullet and this provides plenty of neck tension without resizing the bullet. The noe are available in a lot of different sizes. They can be tricky to order. The first number gives the flared case diameter, and the second number gives you the expanded case size. For example, I use .452 bullets in my .45 colts. I use a .452-.450 size insert.
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Joe S.
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Joe S. on Sept 17, 2019 6:33:57 GMT -5
I’ll have to look into those. Thanks. I use the lee universal case expander, but I use a noe insert in them. I size my case .002” smaller than the bullet and this provides plenty of neck tension without resizing the bullet. The noe are available in a lot of different sizes. They can be tricky to order. The first number gives the flared case diameter, and the second number gives you the expanded case size. For example, I use .452 bullets in my .45 colts. I use a .452-.450 size insert.
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wdr2
.30 Stingray
Posts: 147
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Post by wdr2 on Sept 17, 2019 8:01:31 GMT -5
No - don’t give up on casting. Most of my handguns have never fired either a jacketed bullet or a factory round. As has been said here, dimensions are very important when loading cast bullets. You stated; "The expander i used was just a universal Lee case mouth expander. Basically i flare the case mouth and don’t expand the rest of the case (better neck tension?).” This may be your issue. I’ll bet your cases are very tight. That Lee universal case mouth expander is, simply put, a stupid design.
I mostly use WW+2%tin alloy, powder coat, and size to 0.431in for my Ruger 44s. A couple of years ago, I was using the standard RCBS 44mag expander plug which measures 0.426. I pulled a couple of bullets from my loaded ammo and discovered than my once 0.431 bullets were being sized down in the case to about 0.429. I like my expander to be about 0.002in smaller than my bullet diameter. Try the NOE expander or the RCBS Cowboy ones.
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Post by bagdadjoe on Sept 20, 2019 9:32:03 GMT -5
A lot of good information for future reference....
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Post by oddshooter on Oct 7, 2019 9:44:07 GMT -5
This is kind of funny in that I think I've given up on jacketed and plated. Too expensive to just ring steel.
Also, sixshot has been a big influence on me with some cast he supplied and I then powder coated. I also enjoy the process of slugging and pin gauging the cylinders to get the just right bullet.
Having written that, I must admit I just bought 250 Speer Gold Dots (pulled, mixed). The price was too sweet.
Prescut
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Post by 38 WCF on Oct 12, 2019 15:51:59 GMT -5
nicholst55 nailed it. Most commercial cast bullets are too hard. It's a rare six gun that won't shoot cast bullets but sometimes you have a little work to do, most times nothing other than load development but other times it can be bullet fit, some thread restriction as mentioned, etc. But, you said last year your gun shot just fine at 75 yds & this year it won't, that seems odd if nothing has changed, because something has changed! I sure wouldn't give up on cast bullets, pin gauge your throats, maybe slug your bore, for sure see if you can shoot some softer alloy bullets. A gun & bullet that shot last year should absolutely shoot this year. Don't give up. Dick All of the above and I would suggest Powder coating your bullets. I use the Shake and Bake method with great results on paper, on Rocks and in the Bedroom.
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