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Post by HolyHotLoads on Nov 12, 2019 11:53:09 GMT -5
Thanks. I realize it was an academic question, I was merely curious. I appreciate your help.
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Post by HolyHotLoads on Nov 12, 2019 18:26:50 GMT -5
I believe I actually have a 1:14 twist as a land at 6 o clock at the forcing cone ends at 11 o clock at the muzzle. This is an 8 inch barrel.
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salvo
.30 Stingray
Posts: 252
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Post by salvo on Nov 13, 2019 9:16:37 GMT -5
Billy357, as to the clunky action, it is usually a sign that the cylinder gap is set to tight. Once you get a little carbon build up all it takes is just a little resistance between the cylinder and barrel to make cocking difficult. I still have my three Gun set of Stainless Dan Wessons for IHMSA back before Elgin Gates passed, all 8” .357 SM, .445 SM and a .22 I also have a Blue .44 mag. Love those Dan Wessons!
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Post by bradshaw on Nov 13, 2019 10:19:03 GMT -5
I believe I actually have a 1:14 twist as a land at 6 o clock at the forcing cone ends at 11 o clock at the muzzle. This is an 8 inch barrel. ***** billy357.... your barrel has 1:18-3/4” twist, which will handle most 180 grain revolver bullets and some blunt 200 grain. Twist rate in the M-40 8-inch is easily determined, visually, without measurement. Since the 8” barrel is one-half the length of a 16-inch twist, and 1:16 is the middle twist of three used on the M-40, a land @ 6 o’clock rotates 1/2-turn to 12 o’clock at the other end. twist in 8-inch barrel* 1:14----a land which starts @ 6 o ’clock ends about 1 o’clock ( more than 1/2-revolution). * 1:16----a land which starts @ 6 o’clock ends @ 12 o’clock. * 1:18-3/4----a land which starts @ 6 o’clock ends 10-11 o’clock (less than 1/2-revolution). David Bradshaw
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Post by oddshooter on Nov 13, 2019 12:29:28 GMT -5
Once again, David, provides us with the info we need. This is the first time for me to see the how the 3 twist rates can be measured by eye alone. The difficult becomes simple once you're shown.
Prescut
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Post by HolyHotLoads on Nov 13, 2019 12:32:48 GMT -5
Thanks guys. I also thought that the cylinder might be rubbing on the forcing cone but that is not the case. It's strange, sometimes when cocking in single action its smooth and normal but other times you will get the hammer a third of the way back and it will lock up. You then have to advance the cylinder by hand and start over. I'm thinking it might be the transfer bar sticking in the grooves in the frame? Something is binding somewhere. I'm not sure how to test if it needs a new hand. Everything looks normal to my untrained eyes! I have contacted DW and they are willing to service it. If anyone knows a good smith in Northern Vermont, please let me know as I have a few projects for him(her)! Was going to go take the maxi for a spin today but its January in November up here at the moment.
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Post by oddshooter on Nov 13, 2019 12:40:50 GMT -5
Billie,
Your academic question about DW Supermag strength was addressed really well in that Taffin article.
I might add that I've had a Dan Wesson SuperMag blow the cylinder apart and the top strap off. I bought some PC factory ammo at a local gun store that was way over charged. PC quickly admitted their error and replaced my DW. They never issued a recall. I will Never use PC ammo again. I trust my handloads only.
I'm not sure what this tells you except that the DW SuperMag definitely has a breaking point. It is not worth the risk to shoot the 353 in your DW. I'm not sure I will ever recover mentally from having that KaBoom.
Prescut
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Post by HolyHotLoads on Nov 13, 2019 14:08:08 GMT -5
Wow! I cannot believe factory ammo blew up a pistol let alone a big frame DW! That is a scary story...and no recall? I'd be interested in hearing how you were able to get them to replace your pistol. How many pistols were subject to destruction? As to the 353 casull question I realized it was a silly question shortly after I sent it. But if you never ask...! I just recently discovered the 353 casull and find it fascinating for some reason. But the more I think about it I may just be fascinated with the FA 83 357. I would have to think that it would be just like any other pistol, yes it will handle a certain pressure threshold but the more you push that threshold the more wear and tear you put on that particular firearm. Meaning the stresses the steel absorbs will eventually lead to a failure...maybe? They are way out of my price range at my current place in earning money in this life but that's what saving is for! Who needs food anyway? Another thing I realized is I absolutely love shooting handguns a long distance and I'm forlorn in the fact that silhouette shooting (organized) seems to be a thing of the past. I cannot understand why with it being as big of a thing as it was not too long ago. Anyone know the story?
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Post by bradshaw on Nov 13, 2019 14:32:46 GMT -5
Prescut recounted a damning experience with gray market .357 Maximum ammunition which, from his description----which I trust----points up comments regarding ammunition made to me by Bill Ruger and Bill Ruger, Jr., at various times: that amateurs talk propellant & chamber pressure in declarative sentences without knowledge of the subject. During development of the .357 Maximum we fired some rather stoutly pressured rounds. The common denominator was SLOW POWDER contained in meaty chambers made of good steel properly heat treated. Without seeing the ammo which blew a Ruger and a DWA M40, I am forced to presume a person armed only with ignorance loaded ammo fo commercial sale. David Bradshaw
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Post by bradshaw on Nov 13, 2019 19:44:59 GMT -5
I believe I actually have a 1:14 twist as a land at 6 o clock at the forcing cone ends at 11 o clock at the muzzle. This is an 8 inch barrel. ***** Correction: in 8-inch barrel, less than 1/2-revolution shows a twist SLOWER than 1:16”. This indicates a late-production M-40. Or the stainless M-740, all of which were late production. The DWA M-40 started out with 1:14” twist; changed to 1:16”. Last guns produced had 1:18-3/4”. Since the barrels are all interchangeable and a late-production barrel could be found on an early gun, the only certain way to date the revolver is by serial number----not twist. Twist rate in the M-40 8-inch is easily determined, visually, without measurement. Since the 8” barrel is one-half the length of a 16-inch twist, and 1:16 is the middle twist of three used on the M-40, a land @ 6 o’clock rotates 1/2-turn to 12 o’clock at the other end. twist in 8-inch barrel* 1:14----a land which starts @ 6 o ’clock ends about 1 o’clock ( more than 1/2-revolution). * 1:16----a land which starts @ 6 o’clock ends @ 12 o’clock (exactly 1/2-revolutio). * 1:18-3/4----a land which starts @ 6 o’clock ends 10-11 o’clock (less than 1/2-revolution). David Bradshaw ***** Note: I originally wrote sequence in reverse. Thread corrected and re-posted here. David Bradshaw
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dvnv
.30 Stingray
Posts: 123
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Post by dvnv on Nov 14, 2019 12:41:30 GMT -5
Wow! I cannot believe factory ammo blew up a pistol let alone a big frame DW! That is a scary story...and no recall? I'd be interested in hearing how you were able to get them to replace your pistol. How many pistols were subject to destruction? As to the 353 casull question I realized it was a silly question shortly after I sent it. But if you never ask...! I just recently discovered the 353 casull and find it fascinating for some reason. But the more I think about it I may just be fascinated with the FA 83 357. I would have to think that it would be just like any other pistol, yes it will handle a certain pressure threshold but the more you push that threshold the more wear and tear you put on that particular firearm. Meaning the stresses the steel absorbs will eventually lead to a failure...maybe? They are way out of my price range at my current place in earning money in this life but that's what saving is for! Who needs food anyway? Another thing I realized is I absolutely love shooting handguns a long distance and I'm forlorn in the fact that silhouette shooting (organized) seems to be a thing of the past. I cannot understand why with it being as big of a thing as it was not too long ago. Anyone know the story? In the FA 353, the brass is the limiting factor. The base gun (FA 83) was designed for extended use at high pressure (and with much thinner cylinder walls).
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Post by bradshaw on Nov 14, 2019 14:44:36 GMT -5
Wow! I cannot believe factory ammo blew up a pistol let alone a big frame DW! That is a scary story...and no recall? I'd be interested in hearing how you were able to get them to replace your pistol. How many pistols were subject to destruction? As to the 353 casull question I realized it was a silly question shortly after I sent it. But if you never ask...! I just recently discovered the 353 casull and find it fascinating for some reason. But the more I think about it I may just be fascinated with the FA 83 357. I would have to think that it would be just like any other pistol, yes it will handle a certain pressure threshold but the more you push that threshold the more wear and tear you put on that particular firearm. Meaning the stresses the steel absorbs will eventually lead to a failure...maybe? They are way out of my price range at my current place in earning money in this life but that's what saving is for! Who needs food anyway? Another thing I realized is I absolutely love shooting handguns a long distance and I'm forlorn in the fact that silhouette shooting (organized) seems to be a thing of the past. I cannot understand why with it being as big of a thing as it was not too long ago. Anyone know the story? In the FA 353, the brass is the limiting factor. The base gun (FA 83) was designed for extended use at high pressure (and with much thinner cylinder walls). ***** dvmv..... I would not use the term “factory ammo” to describe the concoction which wrecked a Ruger Blackhawk and a DWA M-40 .357 Maximum. I call it GRAY MARKET AMMO----ammo without a track record loaded for commercial sale. I wouldn’t fire such ammo in .357 Maximum made by Ruger or Dan Wesson Arms. Nor would I load such ammo into a Freedom Arms or BFR, were they to release a .357 Maximum. The Freedom Arms Model 353 (M83 chambered for .357 Mag) gains strength primarily through design, metallurgy, and mass. The revolver became an immediate hit with silhouetters. In hand loading for the M-353, John Taffin walked out on the plank without falling into shark infested waters because he understands the importance of powder selection. When we talk .357 Maximum, we talk SLOW POWDERS. When we talk .357 Maximum we want a pressure dome like a round nose bullet, not a stiletto spire from the Cologne Cathedral. David Bradshaw
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Post by HolyHotLoads on Nov 14, 2019 17:27:25 GMT -5
Thank you Mr. Bradshaw and the rest who chimed in. I've been having fantastic luck with IMR 4227 as far as accuracy goes. Are we allowed to post load data on this forum? If so, and this might be considered a topic for a different thread but does anyone have a favorite powder/,bullets combo for the 357 Maximum? I do have access to about 5 load manuals with data for the 357 maximum but I'd love to hear from someone with a lot of experience with this particular cartridge.
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Post by jfs on Nov 14, 2019 19:02:51 GMT -5
Billy, 20.5grs H-110 - Rem. 7 1/2 - 180gr XTP was good for 2" group @100. This accuracy and velocity allowed me to make a 66 yard one shot stop on boar.... This was the first handload I tried in my 357 Max... I will try to work up accurate handloads using the 180gr Partition and Swift bullets.. IMR-4227 has always been an accurate powder in other calibers I`ve handloaded and am sure it will do good in the 357 Max.... I had a 353 Casull and was amazed what a fast 180gr .35 caliber bullet can do when put where it belongs..
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Post by HolyHotLoads on Nov 14, 2019 23:02:42 GMT -5
Oh boy do I wish there were hogs up here. Something about hunting an invasive species (I'm assuming they are) that taste great on top of it really appeals to me. I've shot a couple pounds of H110 through my 4 inch 586 and it started to erode my forcing cone to the point where I dont want to use it anymore. I thought it was a great powder though. I'm really into 4227 at the moment. Seems to do everything I need it to. I actually had a pound of AA1680 in my hand today but didnt buy it for fear of having another pound of powder that just sits around. But I've read guys having good luck in the Maximum with it. Nice hog!
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