Interestin' comments from long ago......

[bobwright]

I have been sort of studying the US Army Test Trials beginning in 1900. You may recall tests were held to pick a replacement for the .38 Caliber revolvers in use at the time. The Luger pistol was submitted, but in .30 Luger (7.65 mm) caliber. No way was the Army going to consider a .30 caliber when the .38 had been such a dismal failure. By 1907 a 9 mm Luger was submitted. This elicited the following observation, as reported by Charles Clawson:

In every reported instance, the effectiveness of bullets increased with mass rather than velocity. As a comparison between the 9 mm Luger jacketed bullet and the caliber .45 lead bullet, the shock effect of both bullets in cadavers was rated at 80. In the experiments on live animals, the .45 bullet was decidedly superior. The animal shot with the .45 fell to the floor after six shots, but the animal shot with the 9 mm was still standing after being shot twelve times and had to be dispatched by stockyard personnel.

And:

Colt submitted two automatic pistols and two revolvers to the Board to test...............The first revolver was a standard length New Service Revolver, chambered to fire the short experimental revolver cartridge (FA 4 06). It would be modified to fire the standard government ammunition* without any change except boring put the chambers to fit the longer black powder cartridges.
The second revolver was of the New Service design, but the cylinder was shortened about one-third of an inch to accommodate only the short experimental cartridges. The receiver was shortened by an amount equal to the shorter cylinder.

*The ammunition in question would have been the Army issue .45 Colt cartridge? or maybe the .45 S&W rounds.

Bob Wright

[coldtriggerfinger]

Six Rounds.
That is what the advocates of the 45 tend to leave out of their discussion and talking points about the 45.
Granted , the weapon did the job at hand. Much better than the 9mm Luger. That's great !

But it took 6 rounds.

Perhaps if both would have been shooting better bullets the results would have been fewer bullets fired.

Wider is better.

[awp101]

Not having read the tests, I'd also be curious what kind of animal was being shot and where. 6-12 rounds from a pistol at a steer is disappointing but not particularly disturbing to me. If it was a goat, we have a problem...

[Fowler]

If my memory serves they were testing billets by shooting horses, and standard military issue round nosed bullets. Not a great combo for decisive quick kills.

[ddixie884]

Bob have you read the very interesting thread on the smith-wessonforum.com about the 1907 trials. There is a lot of info on the triple lock and the trials ammo. There is also a link to the Pamplet published by the Army on the trials.

[tinkerpearce]

I was discussing calibers with a friend yesterday, and the question came up of why it took German police so long to move from 7.65 (.32 ACP) to 9mm (they didn't switch until the end of the '70s.) They actually had excellent success with their .32s, and my friend found out why. He got to shoot with the Politzei in the early 70's, when they were armed with Walther or Manuhrin Model PPs. He was astonished at their accuracy, and was told "An officer that can't cover an 8-shot group at 5 meters with a ten Pfennig-piece (about the size of a nickel) gets teased mercilessly."

They actually switched to 9mm for greater penetration and to standardize with their military, rather then for improved stopping power.

It's like restaurants and real estate- location, location location.

[magnumwheelman]

I'm wondering it the trials weren't on goats... I seem to remember some army trials using goats???

Hmmm... this says 1991, so earlier maybe likely other animals???

guninstructor.net/Strasborg_Tests.pdf