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Post by needsmostuff on May 21, 2018 9:49:36 GMT -5
Emergency measure ONLY!
If you are comfortable taking the spring off the hammer strut stretch it or shim it. That will tell you if the spring is the issue. You can just pull on the spring and it will stretch but it probably won't come out very straight, The right way to stretch it is measure it , put some rod between the coils then roll it on a table . Measure again . If it has not grown in length do it again with a bigger rod in the coils. Or I have shimmed them with a 1/4" to 3/8" piece of cut off of another main spring.
AGAIN not a repair , just a way to test if the spring is the culprit.
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Post by lazytcross on May 21, 2018 10:32:03 GMT -5
I wouldn’t clean it just yet. Not because it shouldn’t be cleaned but it might distort the diagnostic process! Could you maybe steal a main spring from something else? Bfr? Also look at firing pin protrusion? Estimate on the headspace? I have two ruger Blackhawks in .45 colt and my bfr .500 JRH. If their the same main springs I could change them out and see what I get. What should my headspace be? I measure it with feeler gauges in between the frame and the case head? Thankyou Yes. With feeler gauges. I will find the numbers i had from a few different guns that i measured a while back. As far as headspace. Also check to make sure your cylinder didn’t develop some end shake. Might also make sure your primers are fully seated. If they are long seated then the firing pin has to seat them before it can fire them. And the star line brass is cut for LR so it is a deep pocket. But that doesn’t explain why the 1st 100 went fine for ya.
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Post by wildcatter on May 21, 2018 10:50:48 GMT -5
I never run a low poundage main spring, and most think my Ruger SA triggers are too light! But I have run into missfires on new guns more than once. some simple problems to look for,
To much offset on the hammer face= I have had to file down the face on the hammer that strikes the frame, to get proper firing pin travel. It was not striking the transfer bar with enough travel for consistent strikes. You may need to take the cylinder out and with the base pin back in its operating location cock it, drifire it forcing the hammer with your thumb against the frame firmly "while holding the trigger back", and see what the firing pin protrusion is. also check for obstructions between the transfer bar and frame, or the the face of the hammer and where it strikes the frame for anything that would stop full travel to these two areas.
I would also push the transfer bar manually against the frame to see what the difference in siring pin travel is from transfer bar being fully depressed against the frame, and how far the hammer is depressing it. this is probably where the problem lies, but not having the gun in front of me, and very good at explaining to others new to the transfer bar system, I hope I am making this understandable how easy this can affect light primer strikes, and the little things it could take to fix it.
good luck.
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Misfires
May 21, 2018 11:03:46 GMT -5
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Post by simple45 on May 21, 2018 11:03:46 GMT -5
I have two ruger Blackhawks in .45 colt and my bfr .500 JRH. If their the same main springs I could change them out and see what I get. What should my headspace be? I measure it with feeler gauges in between the frame and the case head? Thankyou Yes. With feeler gauges. I will find the numbers i had from a few different guns that i measured a while back. As far as headspace. Also check to make sure your cylinder didn’t develop some end shake. Might also make sure your primers are fully seated. If they are long seated then the firing pin has to seat them before it can fire them. And the star line brass is cut for LR so it is a deep pocket. But that doesn’t explain why the 1st 100 went fine for ya. the primers are definitely seated and they sit deep in that pocket and I've always worried about them being so deep but never had an issue until I got the ruger. yea I had no issues for at least 100 rounds. then it just started and I don't think I got thru a cylinder full without a misfire.
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Misfires
May 21, 2018 11:15:20 GMT -5
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Post by simple45 on May 21, 2018 11:15:20 GMT -5
I thought about buying some of the buffalo bore .500 JRH for carry and seeing how it works but dang that stuff is expensive and I would still want to use my reloads for shooting.
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Post by lazytcross on May 21, 2018 11:55:23 GMT -5
You could measure your headspace and measure your firing pin protrusion on both your bfr and your BH. That might give some clues.
.005-6 is probably a good headspace. I know that I have measured brass heads that had different dimensions. They aren’t supposed to
I wouldn’t want to order the factory stuff. It’s just starline brass as well.
I go back to the main spring. I know that my BFR 500JRH has a long firing pin and a stiff spring.
Unless the hammer is falling slow for some other reason. Like it got some crap in it or has a bur on it
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Misfires
May 21, 2018 12:27:35 GMT -5
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Post by simple45 on May 21, 2018 12:27:35 GMT -5
You could measure your headspace and measure your firing pin protrusion on both your bfr and your BH. That might give some clues. .005-6 is probably a good headspace. I know that I have measured brass heads that had different dimensions. They aren’t supposed to I wouldn’t want to order the factory stuff. It’s just starline brass as well. I go back to the main spring. I know that my BFR 500JRH has a long firing pin and a stiff spring. Unless the hammer is falling slow for some other reason. Like it got some crap in it or has a bur on it I'm going to check it out when I get home later. really was hoping to be able to carry it but if I can't trust it I'll just take my bfr. but a ruger conversion and a 3.5 inch barrel is just so much more compact!
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Post by wildcatter on May 21, 2018 12:46:54 GMT -5
I think it is a simple issue, my guess is in the transfer bar system, but if springs have been changed on a Huntington built 3.5" conversion in that calibur, I think he would be going heavier, not weaker, but easy to find out with your BFR spring. Also just to point out, it has been my experience Starline is the Lapua of handgun brass, and I have found nothing in any caliber I would rather run! But as with anything at times anyone can have a bad batch of anything machine made, just never been my experience with nearly a dozen calibers I have experience with from Starline.
Now I don't own either caliber so don't if there is a different dimension dedicated to to either for rim thickness, but I am presuming they are the spec'd the same. But I will take Starline brass over any other manufacturer and have waited to get brass before just because the Starline was back ordered at the time. For me in current manufacture it as good as it get's, strength wise and dimensionaly.
Jack Huntington is a fine smith and doubt headspace is off but again, he isn't God, and anything is possible, as unlikely as it is. Pay real close to the mechanics of the transfer bar, a thin bar, or a fat hammer face hitting the frame not allowing the transfer bar to travel far enough has been my experience as I said, more than one with both Ruger double and Single actions!
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Misfires
May 21, 2018 15:05:23 GMT -5
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Post by simple45 on May 21, 2018 15:05:23 GMT -5
I think it is a simple issue, my guess is in the transfer bar system, but if springs have been changed on a Huntington built 3.5" conversion in that calibur, I think he would be going heavier, not weaker, but easy to find out with your BFR spring. Also just to point out, it has been my experience Starline is the Lapua of handgun brass, and I have found nothing in any caliber I would rather run! But as with anything at times anyone can have a bad batch of anything machine made, just never been my experience with nearly a dozen calibers I have experience with from Starline. Now I don't own either caliber so don't if there is a different dimension dedicated to to either for rim thickness, but I am presuming they are the spec'd the same. But I will take Starline brass over any other manufacturer and have waited to get brass before just because the Starline was back ordered at the time. For me in current manufacture it as good as it get's, strength wise and dimensionaly. Jack Huntington is a fine smith and doubt headspace is off but again, he isn't God, and anything is possible, as unlikely as it is. Pay real close to the mechanics of the transfer bar, a thin bar, or a fat hammer face hitting the frame not allowing the transfer bar to travel far enough has been my experience as I said, more than one with both Ruger double and Single actions! Thankyou. the cylinder did unlock a couple times with 80% full power loads around the time I started getting misfires.
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Post by wildcatter on May 21, 2018 16:53:35 GMT -5
That would not be related to the main spring or the transfer bar. But that would be more of a concern to me, this is either timing issue, or the cylinder latch, latcj spring, cylinder notch fit, if the cylinder started unlocking. I would quit shooting it all together till I found out what was up with that, this could not only cause damage to the gun, but you and others around it.
It could all be as simple as a metal shaving being missed inside the trigger housing or the main frame, But if you don't know what all to look for it is not all that simple. So if you are not familiar with the lockwork and firing mechanism's on this revolver I would send it back before I did anything else. If you are I would take it completely down inspect and clean, then check timing before shooting again. It could also be a pinched cylinder latch spring, or but in the retaining hole it and the plunger set's in. You have a lot to check before I consider the gun safe to shoot, let alone dependable for self protection!
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Misfires
May 21, 2018 17:06:24 GMT -5
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Post by halfmoon on May 21, 2018 17:06:24 GMT -5
I'll back wildcatter up here. The only serious revolver failure I've personally seen was a seriously out of time Police Positive that split its forcing cone ( something we'd warned the owner about needing to get looked at, long sigh). Luckily no harm done other than a damaged handgun that time. Still if timing or lockup are in question I'd get a competent smith to put eyeballs on it.
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Post by simple45 on May 21, 2018 17:51:44 GMT -5
That would not be related to the main spring or the transfer bar. But that would be more of a concern to me, this is either timing issue, or the cylinder latch, latcj spring, cylinder notch fit, if the cylinder started unlocking. I would quit shooting it all together till I found out what was up with that, this could not only cause damage to the gun, but you and others around it. It could all be as simple as a metal shaving being missed inside the trigger housing or the main frame, But if you don't know what all to look for it is not all that simple. So if you are not familiar with the lockwork and firing mechanism's on this revolver I would send it back before I did anything else. If you are I would take it completely down inspect and clean, then check timing before shooting again. It could also be a pinched cylinder latch spring, or but in the retaining hole it and the plunger set's in. You have a lot to check before I consider the gun safe to shoot, let alone dependable for self protection! The only reason I noticed the unlocking was the cylinder rotated and clicked when I touched it between shots. Then I checked a couple more times in between shots and it rotated and clicked into position without me cocking the hammer. well I guess this answers my question about carrying it for protection for a couple weeks. back to my bfr and I'll get ahold of jack when I get back.
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Post by bradshaw on May 21, 2018 20:37:12 GMT -5
"Maybe look at your transfer bar. They can be damaged.
(My money is on a wimpy spring)[/quote.)” -----lazytcross
*****
Mainspring as cause of misfire Ken’s suggestion to check for correct mainspring. Rug mainsprings have a feel which, once you get used to it, allows you to detect the cocking action of a lighter spring.
Transfer bar as cause of misfire Lazytcross possibly nails it, although clarification is required. There was a period in the late 1970’s, thereabouts, when some Rugers had short transfer bars, or transfer bars with a bevel, both of which can result in a LIGHT INDENT (light primer strike) or MISFIRE. Storm, Ruger quickly found and corrected the problem, and I haven’t heard of it in years.
Without looking at the revolver or having more information, it is time to test the trigger pull. * Cock unloaded revolver. * Squeeze trigger with tip of finger, ever-so-gently, like taking a baby’s pulse. * Trigger should sweep rearward at hammer fall.
If trigger bounces or kicks forward, you have a FUGITIVE TRIGGER----a) incorrect trigger job or, b) light trigger pull which has been abused. If the trigger kicks forward at hammer fall, the transfer bar drops. The transfer bar then communicates little or no blow to the firing pin. The result is a light indent or no indent.
Springs do not cure a fugitive trigger. Engagement must be dressed to restore REGAIN angles. David Bradshaw
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Post by Ken O'Neill on May 22, 2018 11:27:08 GMT -5
Take the stock mainspring out of your .45 and try it. A phone call to Ruger will get you a new mainspring in a couple days.. About the time we'll spend talking about it here. By the way,the single action mainspring eases cocking, but has nothing to do with the trigger weight of pull, which is controlled by the trigger spring. I believe replacing Ruger single action mainsprings with lighter ones, or cutting coils on one is foolish in the extreme.
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Misfires
May 22, 2018 17:34:17 GMT -5
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Post by simple45 on May 22, 2018 17:34:17 GMT -5
Well I finally had a chance to check it out tonight. I cleaned it up real good checked the main spring transfer bar trigger etc. firing pin protusion is good and on par with my bfr and Blackhawk. Main spring feels good just like the other guns. before I fired it I got out my feeler gauges and checked head space cylinder gap and end shake. with the barrel pointed downward I could fit a .016 gauge in between the case head and frame. When pushing against the cylinder towards the frame I could fit a .012 gauge between case head and frame. For cylinder gap and end shake/ I could fit a .005 in between cylinder and barrel with the cylinder pushed rearward and the smallest I have .0015 in between the cylinder and barrel when I pushed the cylinder towards the barrel. I'm guessing this is where my issue lies? I have not fired it this evening wanted to post the info I found out and see what everyone thought. in comparison my bfr headspace is .007 and cylinder gap is .004 with cylinder pulled back and I could barely squeeze .0015 with cylinder pushed forward.
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