Keith 173 slugs in 357 Magnum

[ezekiel38]

I hate to drag up this old shoe but I need to know if the 173 Keith 357 bullet seated in the crimp groove with driving band exposed will chamber in my Ruger SPs and GP. Looking to purchase some commercial cast bullets, and would like to use them. No longer own any S&W 357s. TIA!

Tom

[dougader]

I think they fit in the GP100, but don't have one here to double check for you. I used to shoot that bullet in IMSHA matches with a S&W 686 and, later, a GP100.

[paul105]

Lyman 358429 from Western Bullet Co.

OAL 1.650" Seated and crimped IN the crimp groove. Note: middle cart in picture below shows 358429 crimped over front drive band not in crimp groove.



Leadheads 168gr Keith:

OAL 1.590" (crimped in crimp grove - last cartridge far right in picture)



Left to right 185gr BTB, 180gr Horn JHP, 173gr 358429 (orig? Keith) by Western Bullet and 168gr Leadheads Keith



Paul

[ezekiel38]

Thanks you guys. Really want to shoot the Keith 173 in the GP but hope it will fit in my 3" SP. Guess I will order a couple hundred from Western and see how they fly. Thanks again!

[gunzo]

My mold is an old Ideal 358429. Using the crimp groove, it will function in a Gp. But will not in an SP, I get +/-.025" protrusion here.

[jdoc]

paul105

Like your crimps in above pictures. Who is the crimp die manufacturer? Thanks

[dmize]

I have a Lyman 358 429. I have no idea how old the mold is since I bought it used,but the box appears to be "vintage".
Loaded in Remington 357 Mag brass,crimped in the crimp groove the will NOT work in my two SP's. I didn't measure but it appears to be a couple thousandths too long.
Fits great in my Blackhawks and GP100's that I bought it for.
Would post pictures but I'm not going thru all that crap again with the new "host"

[paul105]

May 10, 2018 20:26:19 GMT -5 jdoc said:

paul105

Like your crimps in above pictures. Who is the crimp die manufacturer? Thanks

The roll crimp was applied when processed thru Dillon Square Deal B. The rounds were crimped a second time with a Lee "Collet" crimp die (not the normal pistol factory crimp die). The Collet crimp die was purchased from Ranch Dog who is no longer in business -- may be a standard production item now - www.titanreloading.com/lee-precision-reloading-equipment/lee-pistol-reloading-dies/lee-collet-style-crimp-dies/lee-357-magnum-collet-style-crimp-die

Paul

[45MAN]

THE CYLINDER LENGTH ON S&W 357's IS AMONG THE SHORTEST OUT THERE. S&W, ESPECIALLY IN N FRAMES, HAS DONE EVERYTHING IMAGINABLE TO ITS CYLINDERS, MORE HOLES, FLUTES, NO FLUTES, RECESSED, NON-RECESSED BUT NEVER LONGER! THERE WAS A NICE THREAD ON ANOTHER FORUM RE 357 CYLINDER LENGTHS, FA 353's AND THE REDHAWK WERE THE LONGEST.

[bradshaw]

“.... need to know if the 173 Keith 357 bullet seated in the crimp groove with driving band exposed will chamber in my Ruger SPs and GP.”
----Tom

*****

Tom.... shot, two weeks ago, cast 173 SWC in S&W J-frame .38 Special and .357 Mag. I forget about the crimp groove and DEEP SEAT in .38 Special brass. Good accuracy and should chamber in any .38 Special. As noted by 45man, N-frame Model 27/28 has a short cylinder, shorter for whatever reason than the .38-frame Model 19. The Model 27, particularly with 8-3/8” barrel, may have enjoyed a longer tenure in IHMSA silhouette, had the cylinder been longer. The cast 173 SWC enjoyed success in silhouette, albeit with flat base----not the bevel base so prevalent among commercial casters. Again, once velocity steps much over 1,000 fps, a beveled heel militates against accuracy. This is not a function of the speed of sound, as accuracy deterioration sets in before the speed of sound is reached, and fans like a ginkgo leaf as velocity climbs.

Contrary to smoke rising from the jungle drums, the front band does not have to be seated in the chamber exit hole before the bullet starts moving.
David Bradshaw

[ezekiel38]

Thanks to all, and I think I will get the 173 grain flat base and dedicate it to the GP/MC. This is my low country field gun. Get into bear territory a 308 is handy as well as a 44. My Scout rifle with irons is very comforting with Black bears galore in this part of the world and the occasional humped back bear that tends to wander through on occasion. Black bears are quirky and therefore worth closly watching.

A heavier 357 load is good to have and I shot the 173 in a Model 19 Smith back in the early 80s and found it to be attention grabbing in it's accuracy, both long and short range. 2400 is it's friend.

Thanks again I enjoyed the chat and useful info.

Tom

[oddshooter]

Here is an old thread where you can find cylinder lengths.

singleactions.proboards.com/thread/19166/cylinder-lengths-magnum-revolvers-measured

pretty good for decisions where you have too long of COL for one revolver cylinder, to find another revolver it would fit.
or you can use it to custom COL for a cartridge for a particular revolver.

Prescut
Please help supply the FA cylinder lengths?

[okiehoosier]

You can always use the shorter Hornady brass. It measures approx. 1.24".

[sixshot]

I have fired many, many, many thousands of these Keith beauties through my 357's over the years, almost always in 38 special cases with a heavy charge of 2400 powder. My every day load for ground squirrels, Chucks, Field Lions, etc has always been 5.2 grs of 231 using the same bullet in a 38 special case. Don't use these loads without working up as always. Also be certain these loads don't find their way into a 38 special handgun, bad things can happen. I take a black magic marker & after putting the hot loads in my ammo boxes I draw a line across all the primers with the black marker.

Dick

[ezekiel38]

Thanks Sixshot! I use a similar system for marking hotter loads. Nickel brass is always a hotter round in all my revolvers, whereas the brass/brass is a commonly loaded round for that caliber. I don't shoot a lot of hot stuff. Not adventurous with a rifle load nor a semi-auto load. Looking at the 173 for deep penetration, accuracy and weight. Thanks for the sage advice.