Improving a GP100 trigger - update

[awp101]

I've got 2 .357 GPs. 1 is box stock and the other had the trigger worked over by Actions by T before I bought it. One of the changes I want to make to the stock GP is to lighten and smooth the trigger. I don't know that I want to go to quite the same level as the "T" version but it definitely needs some help.

I'm comfortable working on my own stuff so some hand polishing, spring and shim installation doesn't bother me (much) but I don't know how much improvement to expect.

The flip side is send it off and let a trained professional handle it, but who, how much and for how long will it be gone? The old paperwork I have indicates the Actions by T job was $200. The paperwork is at least 10 years old as I recall and based on his website it doesn't look like he's taking work. I don't mind sending it off but I'd prefer to not be without it for 6 months or more. What's a reasonable price and time frame for a revolver trigger job?

Thoughts and ideas welcome, thanks!

[bula]

I think I'd find someone local or at least within a driving distance you are comfortable with for an action job. Build a relationship with someone within an hour of you if possible for the smaller jobs. 

[Yetiman]

I would consider sending it to Jack Huntington, but I realize that with shipping it might cost more than you want to throw at it.

I got lucky with the one GP I have. I wouldn't change a thing about the trigger for how I use it.

[bradshaw]

"I've got 2 .357 GPs. 1 is box stock... One of the changes I want to make to the stock GP is to lighten and smooth the trigger.”
----awp101

*****

Lightening the Double Action stroke makes it easier to feel transitions on the lockwork as TRIGGER COCKING passes various stages of lifting the hammer. The might applied to overcome a stiff REBOUND SPRING and stiff MAINSPRING masks the “track separations” of this particular railroad. In the old days of Colt and Smith & Wesson, shop musicians finished what the brilliant designers and makers of those mechanisms started. After, and only after, the revolver was test fired and put in a box.

Excellent design work is done today, with a primary motive to reduce assembly time----hand fitting. Absent hand fitting, the lockwork must account for smoothness all by itself. Under the circumstances, S&W and Ruger are doing good work. In my shooting of newer double actions, none are ready to take the place of my old S&W’s, which remain a benchmark of DA smoothness. Older Colts----including the Python----have great double actions. Sad for Colt, its lock requires more frequent tune-up than the Smith, and doesn’t remotely approach the Ruger for shooting time vs downtime.

Springs can lighten the action but not tune it. Although, springs which are too light may de-tune function. Ruger DAs are robust and use through-hardened parts. That doesn’t mean they can’t be ruined beyond recognition. If you want to use your GP-100 as an instructionaL tool and do the work yourself, first learn everything you can about co-ordinations of the mechanism, including SA & DA TIMING, CARRY-UP, and THROW-BY. Have a spare hammer and trigger on hand. Do not touch the frame. Reassemble and dry fire often.

If you prefer a gunsmith, make sure the person is GOOD.
David Bradshaw

[ezekiel38]

I thought I had a good working knowledge of revolvers, but, I need more schooling! Mr. Bradshaw I understand TIMING, and CaARRY-UP, but what is THROW-BY? Thank you for all your knowledge and insight in these and other firearms related subjects!

[bula]

To make a guess, stick my neck out..my PP Colt 38spec, if fired in DA, slowly, will not cycle correctly. Won't make it to the next stop.  

[bradshaw]

THROW-BY is manufacturing jargon for: chamber rotates past alignment with bore; cylinder stop fails to catch stop notch in cylinder. May be caused by a number of things, including a broken or weak stop spring, worn cylinder stop (aka stop or bolt), badly worn or abused stop notches, or even the stop retracting too deep in bottom strap of frame and catching on the stop hole.
David Bradshaw

[Alaskan454]

I second finding someone local if you are going to use a gunsmith. If you do it yourself Mr. Bradshaw has given good advice. Study the mechanism and reassemble often. Most GPs I've handled are only in need of minor polishing and clean up if done correctly. A spring kit can help reduce pull weight but the mating surfaces never lie. A lighter trigger is not always a better trigger. I use the 10 lb hammer and trigger springs in mine. Both of which are not the lightest you'll get in a spring kit. If your gun is set up properly it should ignite everything but CCI with a 7-8# DA pull. If you're using it for self defense I'd suggest a 12# hammer spring. I've never had a light strike with any primer using the 12# springs.

[awp101]

Apr 23, 2018 9:39:26 GMT -5 bradshaw said:

Have a spare hammer and trigger on hand.

Always good advice when working on any FCG. It also looks like Ruger may be the only option because in my limited time to search at lunch, nothing shows up at Bownell's or Numrich. And Ruger's "only fit at the factory" for some parts might be the biggest hurdle.

Apr 23, 2018 14:14:14 GMT -5 Alaskan454 said:

A lighter trigger is not always a better trigger.

Agreed. The trigger in my .308 AR is in the 4# range which doesn't sound spectacular but when compared with the mil-spec pull weight that I'm used to in my other rifles, it's an issue because it's very different and I'm not used to it.

I found this: gunner777.wordpress.com/2008/08/24/ruger-gp100sp101book-of-knowledge/amp/ and some videos I'll check out more this evening but right now I'm thinking springs and a shim kit to get my feet wet and see what needs polishing if the springs and shims don't show the improvement I'd like.

[awp101]

Apr 23, 2018 8:34:12 GMT -5 bula said:

I think I'd find someone local or at least within a driving distance you are comfortable with for an action job. Build a relationship with someone within an hour of you if possible for the smaller jobs. 

As amazing as it seems, I've found very few honest to goodness gunsmiths in the DFW area despite looking for the past 10 years or so. I've dealt with battle rifle smiths, parts changers, Glock specialists, and guys who were only willing to build full house precision rifles but GUNSMITHS that can do general gunsmithing beyond a d&t or swapping parts around on an AR are hard to find. It seems everyone wants to specialize.

I rigged up my own barrel vise and wrench to do a couple of Mauser and Martini Cadet rebarrels because no one around here was willing to even discuss the projects. I was told "we don't do barrel changes due to liability" or "we're not set up to rebarrel" and those were from places with "gunsmithing" in the business name.

That's why I'm not opposed to sending this out if the time frame and price are reasonable.

[bradshaw]

awp101..... you’re talking yourself into learning how....

First suggestion after the homework, don’t alter the revolver to where it can’t be put back original. I’ve saved pistols with rotten innards----which frames, barrels, and cylinders weren’t altered at all. I wouldn’t touch a cannibal with an ugly stick.
David Bradshaw

[awp101]

Apr 23, 2018 21:18:31 GMT -5 bradshaw said:

awp101..... you’re talking yourself into learning how....

Yes I am Mr B, yes I am!

Apr 23, 2018 21:18:31 GMT -5 bradshaw said:

First suggestion after the homework, don’t alter the revolver to where it can’t be put back original.

Absolutely. I always try to follow that old rule of thumb "Modify the cheapest part first" and I can't think of any reason I'd need to work on the frame. If the frame is bad enough to need attention, it needs to go back to Ruger or a trained professional.

Worst case, if I bugger the FCG I can send it back to the nurturing biosphere of the Mothership with a clear conscience and pay for Ruger to replace the hammer and trigger. I can tell them I bought it used (true) and some ham handed yob messed with the hammer and trigger (also true if I botch it ).

[bradshaw]

“... bugger the FCG...”
----awp101

*****

awp101.... Pardon my incomprehension, but what is FCG?”

This is why I try to avoid initials, and many acronyms. Even an acronym like SWAG----Scientific Wild Ass Guess----should be spelled out once in a while. Whereas, we know what NRA stands for, and if some wants to refer to the National Recovery Act they should spell it out. I tend to spell out Center of Gravity, or juxtapose it with the initials, COG, or CoG----which in any case is not pronounced “cog.” Sometimes, initials are used to hide profanity.

In the case of “FCG,” were I to mention it to a guru mechanic, would he or she know what I’m talking about?
David Bradshaw

[cherokeetracker]

To confirm what Amp has stated. There is No competent Gunsmith in the DFW area! If there is he is unknown and hiding out somewhere. I too ask,,, What is FCG ?

Charles

[nicholst55]

FCG= Fire Control Group; in this case, the hammer and trigger, primarily.