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Post by bcelliott on Jan 6, 2018 20:24:06 GMT -5
Just a quick intro...I'm fairly new on here, but have been reading Lee's articles and forum threads for a while, and appreciate all the information and help that's offered here. I shoot single actions in quite a few calibers, but .32 caliber is one of my favorites. My very first handgun was my great grandfather's .32-20 6" Colt Police Positive Special 1st generation. My next .32 turned into my greatest gun regret--in college, after reading Ross Seyfried's article on the Buckeye and Marlin '94 in .32-20, I bought a Buckeye new in the box from the distributor. Soon after that, I needed money, and not even having fired it, I sold it. Someone in Lafayette, Indiana got a great revolver, and I really wish I still had it.
Fast forward to today...I own a 5.5" Single Seven, a 5.5" 8 shot Blackhawk, and just got a 5" blued half-lug GP100 in .327 Fed. The SS is limited in cylinder length, and will probably mostly be used with .32 S&W, long, and factory .327 ammo. The GP100 is great for longer COL loads (1.65"), and I have signed up for the Miha 135/140 grain Sledgehammer group buy. The Blackhawk is even better for long COL, allowing a total length of 1.69". However, the GP100 has very tight chambers and very uniform .313" throats compared with the Blackhawk, so I will leave the GP100 as is. The Blackhawk has looser chambers that are not well-finished and cause case sticking with factory ammo and has irregular throats. I'd also like to have a lever action in the same caliber, but I don't want a Henry (no loading gate). As I see it, I have three options for the Blackhawk:
1) Leave as a .327 Federal, but get chambers polished and throats corrected.
2) Rechamber to .32-20.
3) Rechamber to .321 GNR (.357 mag necked down).
How much velocity do I realistically gain with the .321 GNR with a 5.5" barrel? Case volume is more, but max pressure is less. It should do better in a carbine length barrel with slower powder though, and re-barreling a Rossi m92 or Marlin in .357 is straightforward. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
BCE
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Post by Encore64 on Jan 6, 2018 20:34:00 GMT -5
Well, the 32-20 reamer won't clean up a 327 Federal chamber.
The 321 GNR will, but no way eight will fit in a Blackhawk cylinder.
I'd just opt to get an auxiliary cylinder made in 32-20. Even then it gets tight with those rims.
The Single Seven cylinders plenty long enough for my 120 grn cast loads.
You are so right about the new GPs. Awesome built guns if ever I saw one.
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Post by bushog on Jan 6, 2018 20:35:07 GMT -5
I don't think you have enough room in that cylinder for the conversion to either one.
For what people are asking (maybe not getting) for those Blackhawks you might just want to sell it if you don't want it and buy a Blackhawk Buckeye in .32-20 And .32 H&R.
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Post by bcelliott on Jan 6, 2018 21:34:18 GMT -5
Well, darn it, I forgot about the difference in .32-20 brass thickness. I do want to hold onto the Blackhawk, so I guess my options are now to have someone polish the chambers and size the throats, or get a new cylinder in .32-20 made, or both. Can anyone recommend the best smith for this?
Encore64, I have never had or held a factory Ruger revolver fitted like this GP100. It's almost as tight as my BFR. There is almost no endshake or side to side motion when locked up. My barrel-cylinder gap is just ok (0.005"), but the rest is perfection. Just compared the distance between chambers in both the Blackhawk (0.079") and the GP100 (0.100"). Does this mean that this GP100 is potentially stronger than the 8-shot Blackhawk? And is there room for eight .32-20 cartridges in a second cylinder?
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Post by Encore64 on Jan 6, 2018 21:40:38 GMT -5
Ditto on the GP. Barrel gap on mine is .0025". No end shake, etc.
Reeder has been known to make 8 shot 32-20 cylinders. It won't cost anything to discuss it with him. Its very close and some brass can cause issues, while others work just fine.
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Post by contender on Jan 6, 2018 22:58:11 GMT -5
I'd send the 327 Blackhawk cylinder to be honed & cleaned up. A guy that goes by "DougGuy" on the cast boolits forum does an excellent job,,, has quick turn around, and is very reasonable in pricing.
ALSO,,,,,,,,,,,, our own 2dogs here,, does a lot with the 32 caliber stuff. I'm SURE he could fix you up to where the Blackhawk is a sweetheart. I also have a "few" 32 caliber Rugers myself, including the Blackhawk like yours. If I had an issue,,, I'd not hesitate to send it to either of them.
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Post by bcelliott on Jan 7, 2018 0:16:56 GMT -5
Thanks very much for the help and recommendations. Think I'll start with cleaning up the Blackhawk and then looking into a 2nd cylinder in .32-20.
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Post by 2 Dogs on Jan 7, 2018 0:27:29 GMT -5
Just a quick intro...I'm fairly new on here, Glad to have you! but have been reading Lee's articles and forum threads for a while, and appreciate all the information and help that's offered here. I shoot single actions in quite a few calibers, but .32 caliber is one of my favorites. You must be a good man! My very first handgun was my great grandfather's .32-20 6" Colt Police Positive Special 1st generation. He must have been a GREAT man!! My next .32 turned into my greatest gun regret--in college, after reading Ross Seyfried's article on the Buckeye and Marlin '94 in .32-20, I bought a Buckeye new in the box from the distributor. Soon after that, I needed money, and not even having fired it, I sold it. Someone in Lafayette, Indiana got a great revolver, and I really wish I still had it. There are others. Fast forward to today...I own a 5.5" Single Seven, a 5.5" 8 shot Blackhawk, and just got a 5" blued half-lug GP100 in .327 Fed. The SS is limited in cylinder length, Despite the cylinder only allowing a 1.50" OAL it can be quite potent. and will probably mostly be used with .32 S&W, long, and factory .327 ammo. The GP100 is great for longer COL loads (1.65"), and I have signed up for the Miha 135/140 grain Sledgehammer group buy. All 3 of the available 32 640 designs are "must haves" and there is a S7 specific design on the horizon. The Blackhawk is even better for long COL, allowing a total length of 1.69". However, the GP100 has very tight chambers and very uniform .313" throats What tool are you using to measure these throats please? compared with the Blackhawk, so I will leave the GP100 as is. The Blackhawk has looser chambers One thing you gotta get past right away is that all these revolvers are individuals and you often need to load specifically for each individual sixgun. that are not well-finished and cause case sticking with factory ammo Much of the factory ammo I have seen is way overloaded and that is why it is sticking. and has irregular throats. Throats are easy to fix. With the 327 Rugers, often the problem is that the bullet is UNDERSIZE for the factory throats. I'd also like to have a lever action in the same caliber, but I don't want a Henry (no loading gate) No place for dirt to get into it.. As I see it, I have three options for the Blackhawk: 1) Leave as a .327 Federal, but get chambers polished and throats corrected. That particular gun is very valuable as it sits already. Be very careful about what you have done to it. Better to have someone who knows what he is doing have a look at that cylinder first. 2) Rechamber to .32-20. I don't own one to measure, but there might not be enough room.
3) Rechamber to .321 GNR (.357 mag necked down). Again, now your chamber walls are getting pretty thin. Let's look at that cylinder before we pronounce it dead please....How much velocity do I realistically gain with the .321 GNR with a 5.5" barrel? It's hard to say. I had a 5.5" 410 GNR that used a lot of powder and had a muzzle blast comparable to a 454 to go 100 fps faster than a 41 mag. You might need to start with a different (6 shot) platform, bush the gas ring to minimize end shake so you can install a longer barrel with minimum B/C gap to maximize something like that. Case volume is more, but max pressure is less. It should do better in a carbine length barrel with slower powder though, and re-barreling a Rossi m92 or Marlin in .357 is straightforward. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. BCE This is one HELL OF A FIRST POST! I like this guy already! I don't know much about 32's but here are a couple of links for you:
This one on cylinder dimensions: singleactions.proboards.com/thread/19614/fixing-sixguns-lead
This one on 32s and loads: singleactions.proboards.com/thread/10428/notes-mag-327-fed-sp101
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Post by 2 Dogs on Jan 7, 2018 0:54:05 GMT -5
I'd send the 327 Blackhawk cylinder to be honed & cleaned up. A guy that goes by "DougGuy" on the cast boolits forum does an excellent job,,, has quick turn around, and is very reasonable in pricing. ALSO,,,,,,,,,,,, our own 2dogs here,, does a lot with the 32 caliber stuff. I'm SURE he could fix you up to where the Blackhawk is a sweetheart. I also have a "few" 32 caliber Rugers myself, including the Blackhawk like yours. If I had an issue,,, I'd not hesitate to send it to either of them. Tyrone, I turn purple when I blush...
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Post by 2 Dogs on Jan 7, 2018 1:09:18 GMT -5
Well, darn it, I forgot about the difference in .32-20 brass thickness. I do want to hold onto the Blackhawk, so I guess my options are now to have someone polish the chambers and size the throats, or get a new cylinder in .32-20 made, or both. Can anyone recommend the best smith for this? Encore64, I have never had or held a factory Ruger revolver fitted like this GP100. It's almost as tight as my BFR. There is almost no endshake or side to side motion when locked up. My barrel-cylinder gap is just ok (0.005"), but the rest is perfection. Just compared the distance between chambers in both the Blackhawk (0.079") and the GP100 (0.100"). Does this mean that this GP100 is potentially stronger than the 8-shot Blackhawk? And is there room for eight .32-20 cartridges in a second cylinder? Most Smiths are pretty backed up. Your best bet if you would like to see your cylinder back in your lifetime would be to have me or Doug have a look at it. The factory ammo I have seen is way too hot. Some guys are experiencing brass splitting with new ammo. Don't go polishing anything just yet please. It's nice that a sixgun is bank vault tight, BUT, it has to be properly aligned. That is, the chambers need to be looking down the centerline of the bore. Lots of sixguns are loosey goosey are a incredibly accurate. The proof is on the paper. Not trying to rain on your parade because they are beautiful sixguns, but tell us how it shoots!
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Post by bcelliott on Jan 7, 2018 1:52:49 GMT -5
Thanks for the kind words and links, 2 Dogs! I would love to send you my cylinder if you've got time to take a look at it. One chamber in particular is rather unfinished to a noticeable degree and I have to pound out the empty with a LOT more force compared to the rest. I also have a .41 mag Bisley cylinder to send as well if that would work for you. Maybe I should also send my S7 cylinder! As you have suggested, maybe I am selling it short even if its cylinder is shorter. I will definitely look for that next 640 bullet design specifically for the S7. I was measuring throats by tapping a .315 soft lead muzzleloading ball down the barrel and into the throats, then measuring diameter with a micrometer, but lately, I've used a friend's pin gauge set, which is far easier.
It may be that since I got a BFR, I've gotten spoiled with fitment and accuracy, but I always have bought and appreciated Rugers--my second handgun was a 4 5/8" Blackhawk in .45 Colt. My dad had to fill out the paperwork for that one because I was nowhere near old enough. Within a few hours, I had max loads of 296 behind a 300 grain bullet and was making some noise and learning how to deal with real muzzle flip.
I will shoot some groups soon with factory Federal 85 and 100 grains, and perhaps some factory Remington 32 long as well, and will definitely report back on how the GP100 does.
I much prefer the strength of the Winchester pattern m92 lever guns, and I also like Marlins, but Henry centerfire levers have never much appealed to me. No loading gate convenience, but as you say, no place for dirt to get in. I could get past all that if the max COL of the Henry could be lengthened to feed and chamber anything I can shoot in the GP100 and Blackhawk. Has anyone successfully done this mod?
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Post by contender on Jan 7, 2018 11:08:30 GMT -5
Gee,, a purple,,, short necked lead slinger,,,, hmmmm makes for a funny picture! Seriously,,, I told ya 2dogs could offer ya help.
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Post by bcelliott on Jan 7, 2018 11:51:11 GMT -5
Gee,, a purple,,, short necked lead slinger,,,, hmmmm makes for a funny picture! Seriously,,, I told ya 2dogs could offer ya help. Thanks, contender!
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Post by 2 Dogs on Jan 7, 2018 15:18:52 GMT -5
Thanks for the kind words and links, 2 Dogs! You are welcome, I tell guys all the time, don't suffer in silence, give us a chance to help you out. I would love to send you my cylinder if you've got time to take a look at it. One chamber in particular is rather unfinished to a noticeable degree and I have to pound out the empty with a LOT more force compared to the rest. I also have a .41 mag Bisley cylinder to send as well if that would work for you. Maybe I should also send my S7 cylinder! Sure, send all three and save the postage. Be sure to clean them first. Mark the troublesome chamber with a sharpie or a piece of masking tape. I will PM my complete contact information. Please do the same. I will contact you before I do any work. As you have suggested, maybe I am selling it short even if its cylinder is shorter. I will definitely look for that next 640 bullet design specifically for the S7. My 7 1/2" S7 sends the Miha 115 grain large cavity GCHP out at 1500 fps and it turns big Texas Jackrabbits off like they have a bad breaker switch. The 135 grain version tools along at 1300 fps out of the same S7. That is low end 357 Mag territory. Very accurate and POTENT. I was measuring throats by tapping a .315 soft lead muzzleloading ball down the barrel and into the throats, That isn't going to give you an accurate result. then measuring diameter with a micrometer, but lately, I've used a friend's pin gauge set, which is far easier. This is much better and how I do it.
It may be that since I got a BFR, I've gotten spoiled with fitment and accuracy, but I always have bought and appreciated Rugers--my second handgun was a 4 5/8" Blackhawk in .45 Colt. My dad had to fill out the paperwork for that one because I was nowhere near old enough. Within a few hours, I had max loads of 296 behind a 300 grain bullet and was making some noise and learning how to deal with real muzzle flip. I will shoot some groups soon with factory Federal 85 and 100 grains, and perhaps some factory Remington 32 long as well, and will definitely report back on how the GP100 does. Looking forward to your impressions!
I much prefer the strength of the Winchester pattern m92 lever guns, and I also like Marlins, but Henry centerfire levers have never much appealed to me. No loading gate convenience, but as you say, no place for dirt to get in. I could get past all that if the max COL of the Henry could be lengthened to feed and chamber anything I can shoot in the GP100 and Blackhawk. Has anyone successfully done this mod? Lots of the custom Lever Action guys increase the "throw" of the lifter so a longer nose to crimp bullet can be used. This often requires throating the barrel. One I know personally is Mic McPherson. His stuff is bullet proof. He will take a .357 Magnum lever gun and turn it into, well, something else....Let me add one last thing. I'm pretty sure Tyrone will back me up on my thoughts here. Don't go off modifying that 8 shot Blackhawk too much. They got real scarce all of a sudden and prices skyrocketed on those things. Even I don't have one. You have mentioned several times you would be willing to build a custom cylinder. Well, put that custom cylinder in say a Flattop 44 Special. Use a high quality barrel. Sell the cylinder and barrel off the donor gun to offset your additional costs. You have many more advantages this way. You can go stainless or blue, Bisley or XR3, your new sixgun will be some lighter than the bigger frame unit, it will have your preferred barrel length, and you will have preserved the value of your original 327 Blackhawk.
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Post by contender on Jan 7, 2018 19:44:59 GMT -5
"Let me add one last thing. I'm pretty sure Tyrone will back me up on my thoughts here. Don't go off modifying that 8 shot Blackhawk too much. They got real scarce all of a sudden and prices skyrocketed on those things."
Quoted for truth.
The Blackhawk 327 wasn't accepted as many had hoped. As such,,, it wasn't made in large quantities. But to those of us who enjoy a heavier revolver,, and appreciate the 327 caliber,,, it is one of those guns you "gotta have." In some ways,,, it reminds me of my 357 mag Redhawk,,, one of the original 6 shot large guns. That sweet Blackhawk in 327 is a great field gun.
Just let 2dogs do his magic,, and you won't be sorry.
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