Bullet Nose Profile and Accuracy

[dhd]

My shooting partner decided he wanted a WFN style of bullet for his new FA 83 454/45 Colt. I ordered it, cast up a few hundred, PC'd them and seated GC's. He doesn't care much for heavy recoil so he loaded them to a much lower velocity range than I would have. At 50 yards he was getting nasty groups on steel. I fired 5 on paper to see what was going on. Comparing the target to what I was shooting, it was obvious that the bullets weren't stable. Everything I had on paper from my 44 Magnum had nice round holes with a black ring around each hole and the WFN had the ring around one side only. It shot terrible for me too.

The FA in question will shoot a 300 grain LFNGC bullet stupid accurate at a lower velocity, but this new bullet (Accurate 45-280FG) would not work at lower velocities. I had him up the charge of HS6 and accuracy began to settle down. Not good enough yet, but he is still below of where I will go with my Blackhawk 45 Colts. We needed a bullet with a nose no larger than .451" to chamber in the tight throat of the 45 Colt cylinder. Who knows if he'll even put the 454 cylinder in the revolver as it may be more fun than necessary. 

I've read before that a WFN style bullet needs a good kick in the butt for accuracy, but never noticed myself as I always loaded them kinda heavy anyway. When he loaded this bullet down so low, they shot like crap. Is this a usual of occurrence with WFN style bullets?

Personally I prefer a more LFN style nose, but it was his choice in this mold. As usual Tom at Accurate Molds makes a beautiful mold that casts like a dream. One thing for sure is that this bullet pokes a wadcutter like hole in cardboard and suspect that when be gets enough powder in the case, it will poke a large hole in any critter he shoots. 

[cherokeetracker]

since I do not have much information, and my crystal ball ids being recalibrated I am just going to suspect that the velocities are not high enough for the bullet weight. ( this allows for keyholes) I run a LBT-WFN 335gr at 1100-1200 FPS That is from 21.5grs of H110 in a 45 caliber Blackhawk. Why don't you try about 20grs of H4227 with that bullet? If ha can't handle that load then I suggest a nice 44 SP,,,,,

[dhd]

Oh, he has a nice 44 Special and a few others (a Model 83 in 357 has been ordered). He can handle some recoil but just chooses to not like it much.

The next time the load will start at 21 grains of H110 or least 13 grains of HS6. Anything above 1100 I'm thinking.

I was just noting that a WFN needs a little more kick in the butt than a LFN at least with this revolver.

[boolitdesigner]

Check the bullet for roundness. Does it size more on one side than the other and did you cast it hard?

[dhd]

Nov 13, 2017 10:32:40 GMT -5 boolitdesigner said:

Check the bullet for roundness. Does it size more on one side than the other and did you cast it hard?

The bullets drop from the mold nice and round. The issue with this bullet, I'm sure, is that it will need more powder below it. That'll happen this next weekend.

[kings6]

It is interesting in that I was talking to Dustin Linebaugh one day about bullet nose shapes he recommends and he had a funny verbal description for a WFN bullet that basically asked "Where the _______ will it land?" He feels like for the way he builds guns and for the guns he has shot, the LFN design is much more likely to result in higher accuracy than the WFN configuration. Just his take on the bullet shape question.

[dhd]

Others have way more experience with these bullets than I, but I've had much more luck with a LFN style before fine tuning. I didn't choose this one myself as noted in the OP, but that doesnt mean I don't have a few molds that have a WFN cavity in them. I have 3 molds (.358, .430, and a .452) that each have a LFN and a WFN style. I did this thinking they would be good "try pieces" so I could then get 4 gang molds in what worked.

To me, a LFN style is like a Sierra Match King in that they tend to shoot well in just about anything to start with. Fine tuning can sometimes find something that will shoot better. We'll see how this bullet shoots when the gas pedal gets floored.....

All of the molds I own in a WFN style do shoot well, but I've never tried to lob them underhanded. I treat them more like baseballs.

Thanks for listening to/reading my ramblings.

[bradshaw]

did.... you’ve outlined your own experiment. Boost velocity of the bullet that doesn’t fly straight. Remember, one carefully designed experiment is worth one thousand expert opinions.

Doubt the .45 WFN in question will fly straight. Sounds like a BALANCE problem. Even a good big bore wadcutter flies straight----for a while. Some of these Wide Flat Nose bullets seem to possess asymmetric weight features. A double base wadcutter places Center of Gravity coincident to Center of Form, and these bullets fly straight----for a while. The CoG wants to be pushed apart from the longitudinal center of form for stabilization. Rate of twist and velocity can only do so much to keep flight straight before the the cone of dispersion widens. The better the dynamic balance, the longer flight stays straight.

I suspect the main reason a Long Flat Nose holds accuracy better than a Wide Flat Nose has much less to do with aerodynamics than the separation of CoG from CoF in the LFN.

As fior spin and stability, a bullet spun slow enough to marginalize stability inclines to tumble on meeting resistance.

Your bullet may be a good design, poorly made. Or, made from an asymmetric mold. Lee Martin and I went through the asymmetric bullet caper, and Lee measured the WFN bullets which this shooter attempted to shoot straight. We Had wild brief success. Incredible accuracy----which did not repeat. We separated CoG from CoF but it was not enough to overcome MEASURABLE IMBALANCE.

The target is the final arbiter of accuracy.
David Bradshaw

[dhd]

My shooting partner will up the speed on this bullet for sure. It was not a mold I would have chosen for myself and tried to talk him into a LFNGC style of the same weight, but he wanted it.

The CoG and CoF I get from shooting 600 yard Benchrest rifles for years. Seen it before, but it had as much to do with rate of twist as anything else. However, some bullets just don't work and when it's known, I don't waste barrel life on them. I'm a fast twist heavy bullet shooter in rifles. N

I did load some up for myself and will shoot them out of a William's Bisley Blackhawk I own. They will not be slow, but I already know my 45 Colt's love a 300 grain LFNGC from another Accurate Molds mold. Powder coated of course.

Thanks for your informative points Mr Bradshaw.