dhd
.327 Meteor
Posts: 941
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Post by dhd on Nov 8, 2017 13:48:08 GMT -5
Just a curiosity question for anyone that has used the 360 DW brass from Starline.
I notice it is described as having a modified web, and I'll assume that it is designed for the higher pressures, but does it also have much thicker case walls up towards the case mouth. I'm quite sure it does, but my curiosity pertains to the brass being cut down for a Freedom Arms 83 in 357 Magnum. I also understand the thicker case head will restrict volume some, but if it can stand the corresponding higher pressure of the 360 DW and it will be used in the strong Model 83, it might be worth the bother and expense.
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Post by Encore64 on Nov 8, 2017 13:50:36 GMT -5
Should work fine. But, would accommodate for slightly reduced case capacity.
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dhd
.327 Meteor
Posts: 941
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Post by dhd on Nov 8, 2017 14:30:48 GMT -5
A couple reasons I was curious were that it would be a very good way to keep hot loads out of my Ruger 357 BH's, increased case/primer pocket life, and lastly that I could fit the case to the chamber exactly. I keep a very close eye on measurements due to the years I've spent playing with Benchrest and BPCR rifles and that has carried over with the revolvers.
It probably wouldn't make much of any improvement with the case length, but I've spent some serious money on tools and time for minute differences in rifles. A little here, a little there does make me feel better.
It looks like I'll need to trim about .10" - .014". I just don't want to waste money and find the case gets thick quick where the bullet base ends and not be able to chamber the loaded round. I do not have the FA 83 357 Magnum yet anyway....
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Post by Encore64 on Nov 8, 2017 14:43:56 GMT -5
Or lengthen the FA chambers to accept the 360 brass?
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dhd
.327 Meteor
Posts: 941
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Post by dhd on Nov 8, 2017 15:36:00 GMT -5
Or lengthen the FA chambers to accept the 360 brass? That's a thought I have had, but I got in trouble mentioning honing the throat for a Model 83 44 Magnum a short while back. Naturally, the revolver shoots as expected regardless of tight throats. It was a mental problem more than a revolver problem. I bet Starline 357 Magnum brass can take quite a beating without loosing brass to the primer pockets. Plus just because I can push bullets very fast doesn't mean I need to do it. These are more of target guns than hunting guns. I haven't found that many shoot fantastic right at the extreme upper limits anyway.
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Post by Encore64 on Nov 8, 2017 15:44:57 GMT -5
Well, we've all been there. While I love the FA guns, there is one very important fact.
Its your gun and your call. Make your call and enjoy your gun.
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Post by xs56gun on Nov 8, 2017 20:05:35 GMT -5
Personally I'd go for reaming it out to 360 DW. It's be the first one I've seen, and there's nothing sweeter than being able to drop a 3rd caliber in it!
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Post by bradshaw on Nov 8, 2017 20:20:28 GMT -5
“... got in trouble mentioning honing the throat for a Model 83 44 Magnum a short while back. Naturally, the revolver shoots as expected regardless of tight throats. It was a mental problem more than a revolver problem.
I bet Starline 357 Magnum brass can take quite a beating... These are more of target guns than hunting guns. I haven't found that many shoot fantastic right at the extreme upper limits anyway.” ----dhd
*****
A stock Dan Wesson Arms M-44 VH8 (Vent Heavy 8-inch), full length underlug, no porting) put the crimp on 7x10 little .22 turkeys and rams @ 205 meters in an IHMSA regional championship. No unlimited pistol beat that. The .44 Mag revolver was checked out at DWA in Monson, Massachusetts after the match. Chamber exits measured a tight .426-inch. Astoundingly firm throats. As an experiment, DWA opened the throats .003” to .429-inch. Accuracy----around 3-inch @ 200 meters----was not improved. Note: Creedmoor position, scopes not allowed. Groove diameter of the Dan Wesson barrel miked .428-inch. Chamber-to-bore alignment, offset, ran about .001-inch. The 11-degree factory forcing cone was very short, smooth, dead concentric.
This accuracy was obtained with Federal 44A 240 JHP and handloaded Sierra 240 JHC. 23 to 24 grains of 296/H110, 24 grains IMR/H4227, and even 21 grains of the old Hercules 2400 produce this kind of accuracy from the Sierra.
This these tight throats would not work with cast bullets.
As for the .357 Magnum in a Freedom Arms Casull, provided the right bullet, accuracy continues into the rocks & dynamite pressure zone. With the variety of revolvers out there chambered in .357 Mag, adjust handloads to the gun, same as you would for the various revolvers in .45 Colt.
I would change nothing on the gun before shooting it. After that, I’d probably keep shooting it. David Bradshaw
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dhd
.327 Meteor
Posts: 941
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Post by dhd on Nov 8, 2017 22:56:09 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies. I tend to over think things just in case (I keep repeating this to myself🤣). The good thing is that I know I don't know everything and don't mind asking questions.
As these single action revolvers have captured my attention (and excess funds) I'm trying to learn why they do what they do. I was never in the camp that suggests to just buy a factory rifle and shoot it until you learned how to "shoot". A great rifle teaches shooter mistakes better than an OK rifle ever will. I feel the same about these revolvers and I don't mind getting what I consider great ones (or ones made great) because I need to know it was me or it.....
Mr Bradshaw, I'm glad you made the comment about the difference between lead and jacketed bullets. I'm a cast bullet shooter probably for the long run. It's that OCD thing and plus I enjoy piling those bullets up straight from the mold.
It was suggested to get myself a few new Starline 360 DW cases and find the answer that way. Now after I send Mr Clements what is owed, then I might as well buy myself a new toy in the form of a Model 83 357 Magnum.
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Post by potatojudge on Nov 9, 2017 1:06:31 GMT -5
If you're talking of reaming to 360 DW why not go all the way to 357 Max? You'll be deep seating most bullets, but this way it would be easy to make every load cylinder length and you'd never be limited by case length. I don't think shooting 357 max vs 360 DW vs 357 mag vs 38 special brass will make much if any difference in the way of accuracy. You might be able to seat the 180 grain XTP to the first cannelure and actually have it fit the cylinder.
The next step in eeking out velocity is to go with a bottle neck cartridge, of which there are many. But the appeal lessens with the increased steps in loading and the restriction in ammunition compatibility. Look at the 356 GNR. The 358 GNR would have the same limitations as reaming to 357 Max AKA deep seating bullets would be the norm.
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Post by bradshaw on Nov 9, 2017 8:42:37 GMT -5
"If you're talking of reaming to 360 DW why not go all the way to 357 Max?” ----potatojudge
*****
There is no point arguing accuracy between .38 Special, .357 Mag and .357 Maximum. Thus, I would include the 360 DW, since length fits between Mag and Maximum. Each intrinsically possesses tournament accuracy. As for the Freedom Arms M-353 .357 Mag, it is a respectively chambered Casull M-83. Obviously, Hell for stout. As is the Ruger Maximum. John Taffin was the first to push the FA .357 Mag, and John specifically cautioned against dropping shells tailored for the Freedom Arms into other revolvers. We never ran into strength problems with the Ruger Maximum with slow powders, which is why I cannot understand those who think power can be improved with a medium or fast powder.
As for reaming a Freedom Arms .357 Mag to chamber a longer case, why? Resale value will plummet, at least enough to equalize having FA fit a .357 Mag cylinder.
A good straight-wall case in the sixgun offers versatility, ease of loading, flexible seating depth, with accuracy over a spectrum of loads. David Bradshaw
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dhd
.327 Meteor
Posts: 941
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Post by dhd on Nov 9, 2017 14:13:23 GMT -5
I highly doubt I would have a cylinder reamed to a longer case in a FA 83 357. I was brainstorming a way to tailor make cases for that revolver only and help make sure if I choose to run the loads hot they case life would be long and uneventful. The thicker case web seemed to answer a question I had but I didn't want to have possible thicker case walls to cause a bulge at the base of the bullet and not allow a loaded round to chamber in a tight FA chamber.
I can always just get some Starline nickel cases as I don't have any for 357 Magnum. I do run Starline standard brass cases for my Ruger BH but they belong to it.
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Post by bula on Nov 10, 2017 8:44:40 GMT -5
I would think 360DW brass comes at a premium and costs quite a bit more than 357 brass. Think I'd look for a trade or sell and buy 357 brass with the money. Seems a shame to cut down the 360DW.
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Post by gemihur on Jan 28, 2021 15:06:11 GMT -5
During an increased demand period they are affordable @ 31¢ each from Starline Absolutely No 357 magnum brass available Keep shootin', my friend
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gnappi
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,394
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Post by gnappi on Aug 2, 2023 5:47:55 GMT -5
A couple reasons I was curious were that it would be a very good way to keep hot loads out of my Ruger 357 BH's, increased case/primer pocket life, and lastly that I could fit the case to the chamber exactly. I keep a very close eye on measurements due to the years I've spent playing with Benchrest and BPCR rifles and that has carried over with the revolvers. It probably wouldn't make much of any improvement with the case length, but I've spent some serious money on tools and time for minute differences in rifles. A little here, a little there does make me feel better. It looks like I'll need to trim about .10" - .014". I just don't want to waste money and find the case gets thick quick where the bullet base ends and not be able to chamber the loaded round. I do not have the FA 83 357 Magnum yet anyway.... I know this is an older post but I also have thought about using .360 brass mainly to mechanically segregate barn burner loads from my Ruger and S&W revolvers. I'm not going to live forever and I'd HATE to have my son or some future owner cause themselves a serious problem with ammo after I'm gone. I'm not likely to have my 383 chambers lengthened so what did you wind up doing?
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