|
|
Post by 2 Dogs on Sept 26, 2017 20:01:35 GMT -5
How many of you FA owners have had your throats opened up due to them being undersized? I've asked a couple questions about my new to me FA (Model 83 44 Magnum 7 1/2" Premier Grade) and though I haven't been able to shoot it yet, know the throats are under sized. I picked it up off of RugerForum.com a couple weeks ago and got a very good deal especially considering the extras that came with it. Happy as I am with it, I can't help but think opening up and making all the throats exactly the same will never hurt and probably help. I size my cast bullets to .430" (Accurate Molds WFN and LFN) and no bullet will even consider sliding through. A loaded round will chamber, though they are tight, but the loaded round will need to be pushed out using the ejector rod. I will shoot it this weekend to see what I've got, but I'm just checking to see if any others have opened yours up. Thanks, Dale Dale, I am another who believes there is absolutely nothing wrong with a press fit. Tight is as tight does. With a FA, remember to pull your cylinder and use it as your case gauge when loading ammo. I never opened any of my FA's up. I did meet with and speak with Bob Baker on several occasions. He did modify several of my FA's himself to ease the sharp step from the chamber to the throat. There are too many die makers out there who would be happy to make you any size die you would like. I wouldn't let any one else but Bob Baker and crew touch my FA's. I also did some firelapping on one of my FA's but NOT before checking with Bob first. If I might ask, how exactly are you arriving at your stated dimension of .430"? Is that what your sizer says or are you measuring it and if so, what tool are you using? The reason I ask, is because different alloys will come out of a sizer with a certain amount of "spring back" and you have to account for that especially when you are loading for a FA. With a FA .430" and .4303" are a HUGE difference. You also have to be careful with your crimp. A little too much crimp and sure enough your ammunition wont chamber. I can't state strongly enough how wise it is to have your cylinder close by when loading for your FA so you can chamber check your loads. |
|
jdoc
.327 Meteor
Posts: 727 
|
Post by jdoc on Sept 26, 2017 20:50:39 GMT -5
100% accurate FA advice. Fermin, thanks for the post.
|
|
|
|
Post by 2 Dogs on Sept 26, 2017 22:30:37 GMT -5
100% accurate FA advice. Fermin, thanks for the post. Thanks, I do try! |
|
dhd
.327 Meteor
Posts: 941
|
Post by dhd on Sept 27, 2017 7:16:33 GMT -5
I am glad I did ask the question about the tight throats now. A lot of good information from experienced individuals is in this thread that I haven't found searching the web.
Fermin, the .430" is on the dies (both RCBS and Lee), but I didn't take the dies word for it. My shooting partner and I tend to measure everything and as he has some pretty good micrometers (he's a retired machinist), we found the Lube a Matic .430" die sizes to slightly under that dimension with wheel weights + 2.5% tin. The Lee push thru was lapped until it got to the same dimension with the same alloy. As my other 44 Magnum (a SBH 4 5/8" SS) has shot any of the 3 bullet styles I have sized from those .430" dies well, I quit worrying about the slight discrepancy and just call it .430". A long explanation and I may not have worded it well.
As stated before, I do appreciate the feedback from you all and the nature of the question was curiosity. One of the first questions asked about Ruger Blackhawk's is what are the throat dimensions and I have gotten into the habit of at least checking to see if my bullets (regardless of caliber) fit. I've had a 357 Magnum Ruger Blackhawk opened up and the accuracy difference before and after was worth the effort, but haven't touched my 44's and 45's. When the FA got home I naturally checked it and found it was tight. I had already read hours worth of stuff about the tightness of the FA revolvers (83's and 97's) and decided to ask here and I'm glad I did!
|
|
|
|
Post by bula on Sept 27, 2017 8:56:39 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but measuring the throats on a cylinder is one thing, wether they are undersized or not has to do with their relationship to the bore/barrel measurements. Yes ?
|
|
|
|
Post by clintsfolly on Sept 27, 2017 13:34:45 GMT -5
Tight or loose isn't a big deal as long as they are all the same size! One or two odd sized ones will raise cane with accuracy most times.
|
|
kooz
.327 Meteor
Posts: 618
|
Post by kooz on Sept 27, 2017 13:39:28 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but measuring the throats on a cylinder is one thing, wether they are undersized or not has to do with their relationship to the bore/barrel measurements. Yes ? BINGO !! |
|
|
|
Post by tradmark on Sept 27, 2017 14:48:05 GMT -5
Havent yet seen a fa that isnt a shooter. I dunno if any have perfect measurements or not but i dont mess with a shooter.
|
|
|
|
Post by 2 Dogs on Sept 27, 2017 20:38:24 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but measuring the throats on a cylinder is one thing, wether they are undersized or not has to do with their relationship to the bore/barrel measurements. Yes ? Yes, your throats should be some bigger than your bore. The normal is .001" over. The ideal is that the dimensions around the bullet tighten as the bullet nears the muzzle. |
|
|
|
Post by 2 Dogs on Sept 27, 2017 20:41:46 GMT -5
I am glad I did ask the question about the tight throats now. A lot of good information from experienced individuals is in this thread that I haven't found searching the web. Fermin, the .430" is on the dies (both RCBS and Lee), but I didn't take the dies word for it. My shooting partner and I tend to measure everything and as he has some pretty good micrometers (he's a retired machinist), we found the Lube a Matic .430" die sizes to slightly under that dimension with wheel weights + 2.5% tin. The Lee push thru was lapped until it got to the same dimension with the same alloy. As my other 44 Magnum (a SBH 4 5/8" SS) has shot any of the 3 bullet styles I have sized from those .430" dies well, I quit worrying about the slight discrepancy and just call it .430". A long explanation and I may not have worded it well. As stated before, I do appreciate the feedback from you all and the nature of the question was curiosity. One of the first questions asked about Ruger Blackhawk's is what are the throat dimensions and I have gotten into the habit of at least checking to see if my bullets (regardless of caliber) fit. I've had a 357 Magnum Ruger Blackhawk opened up and the accuracy difference before and after was worth the effort, but haven't touched my 44's and 45's. When the FA got home I naturally checked it and found it was tight. I had already read hours worth of stuff about the tightness of the FA revolvers (83's and 97's) and decided to ask here and I'm glad I did! You got this cat skinned!! It was a great question and it was good that you asked because it might help somebody out there who wanted to know but was afraid to ask. So, one more time, guys, don't suffer in silence!!! |
|
|
|
Post by Encore64 on Sept 27, 2017 21:02:26 GMT -5
I agree with Fermin on this one...
|
|
|
|
Post by Alaskan454 on Sept 27, 2017 21:05:57 GMT -5
Same here, I've done some things in the past that could have turned out very poorly. Always better to ask first!
|
|
dhd
.327 Meteor
Posts: 941
|
Post by dhd on Oct 1, 2017 8:10:05 GMT -5
OK, I did something odd and decided to shoot it (crazy, I know). I used a load that shoots very well out of my SBH and find the FA wants more powder. I went back and read Mr Taffin's article on this revolver again to look at the data he used. I was under his starting load even. I use the Accurate Molds 43-290V LFNGC style mostly (either lubed or PC) but also cast his 43-265F LFN style. Either way, I will need to step on the gas some.
Accuracy was running under 3" @ 50 yards from the beginning, but as the charge went up a grain, it started getting better. Next time I'll start at 22 grains of H110 and go up with the 290's. I don't need extreme speed, just extreme accuracy and it already shows that the accuracy will be there.
This thing has an Ultra Dot 30mm sight on it now, but I will go to either the 2X or 4X Leupold as soon as I decide which one. With my rifles I've found I never regretted going with more power in a scope. I don't know, but suspect that staying with the fixed power may be a safer route. I don't mind spending money, but I hate wasting it, and a variable power scope has many moving parts.....
|
|
|
|
Post by Alaskan454 on Oct 1, 2017 8:58:03 GMT -5
I tried a variable scope once on a revolver and was not a fan. What distance, target size, and shooting position will you be using?
|
|
|
|
Post by contender on Oct 1, 2017 8:58:24 GMT -5
I'm a little late to this discussion, and I have a LOT less experience than many above who have posted.
But, I do own one FA in 454, and I've also been to FA, seen how they build things, and even spent some time with Bob Baker. I have, as yet, never seen any need to tinker with a FA due to accuracy concerns. All of the above advice is spot on in all my studies. And by your actual shooting, along with experimentation of loads,,, you realize the gun is accurate. All you have to do is feed it properly & do your part behind the trigger.
|
|
