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Post by Burnston on Jul 16, 2017 20:33:21 GMT -5
Good evening all,
I've been buying projectiles from Missouri Bullet Company with reasonable success. I've stuck with Brinell levels above 18 but am still having leading problems out of a 3rd gen Colt SA, especially with their #430240EK .430 bullet.
MBC has a great product and I've continued business with them because of their competitive prices: #430240EK is $50 for 500 projectiles.
I'd like to expand my horizons and find a dependable bullet from a different company for an equally or almost equally competitive price. I'm fairly new to the reloading process, so any input is helpful.
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Post by boolitdesigner on Jul 16, 2017 23:52:19 GMT -5
18 BHN is a little hard........ try something around 10 BHN, your leading should be no more!
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COR
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,522
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Post by COR on Jul 17, 2017 6:57:03 GMT -5
Agreed on going "softer" but maybe we might need to add a little info here...
Actual Load?
ACTUAL (not listed) diameter of bullets?
And before 2 Dogs jumps in here... Let's talk about your guns dimensions. If you have pin gauges it can help diagnose (most don't, it's fine), there are a few write ups regarding pushing a soft lead sinker through too. Every now and then a gun needs a little TLC in load building but once you find that sweet spot that "puts them where you look" ...also throats and barrels differ and this can be remedied at times. You'll get enough info to get this thing running.
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Post by 2 Dogs on Jul 17, 2017 8:17:20 GMT -5
18 BHN is a little hard........ try something around 10 BHN, your leading should be no more! Bob, perhaps a bit more detailed explanation would benefit the entire board. It certainly did me!
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kooz
.327 Meteor
Posts: 618
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Post by kooz on Jul 17, 2017 9:06:47 GMT -5
I am going to guess that your 3rd gen .44 spl cyl throats are .434....most are . IF your loading dies have a large enough inside diameter and will load a .433 size bullet or .434 if you can find them you will more than likely be rewarded with some good accuracy . I do sell cast bullets and can size out to .433 with plain base and .434 with gas checks . I have the same problem with my .44 spl Colt (1979 year model) . The largest I can load with my dies is .432 , but that does the trick and it shoots pretty good 1 1/2" @ 25yds on a good day no problem .
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Post by boolitdesigner on Jul 17, 2017 9:13:41 GMT -5
18 BHN is a little hard........ try something around 10 BHN, your leading should be no more! Bob, perhaps a bit more detailed explanation would benefit the entire board. It certainly did me! From his description, he is running a 44 Special with a factory load level of about 15.5K. The 10 BHN number will obdurate and seal at that pressure while a 18 BHN bullet would take over 32K to do so. Also more than likely that bullet is undersize for the Colt's cylinder throat. A hard undersize bullet WILL LEAD in that situation. Matching your alloy hardness and load level along with proper fit = no leading and good accuracy. You guys who shoot should be looking for producers who cater to non hard cast bullets of the proper size OR start casting your own.
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Post by sixshot on Jul 17, 2017 10:48:44 GMT -5
Bullet casting "101" or maybe "102" behind bullet fit is, don't shoot them too hard if you're shooting mid range loads!
Dick
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Post by 2 Dogs on Jul 17, 2017 12:03:17 GMT -5
Bob, perhaps a bit more detailed explanation would benefit the entire board. It certainly did me! From his description, he is running a 44 Special with a factory load level of about 15.5K. The 10 BHN number will obdurate and seal at that pressure while a 18 BHN bullet would take over 32K to do so. Also more than likely that bullet is undersize for the Colt's cylinder throat. A hard undersize bullet WILL LEAD in that situation. Matching your alloy hardness and load level along with proper fit = no leading and good accuracy. You guys who shoot should be looking for producers who cater to non hard cast bullets of the proper size OR start casting your own. Gotta pry this info outta ole Bob sometimes! Ok Bob, we got you on a roll, now for that guy who has 2000 pounds of wheel weights stashed in his garage explain about the excessive antimony content and how to make a tougher bullet. Let me go ahead and attach a pretty please! Note to self: if this turns into a information avalanche ask Lee for a STICKY!!!
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Post by boolitdesigner on Jul 17, 2017 20:03:32 GMT -5
Hmmmm.... wheel weights, old or new. The old ones have a lot more antimony than the new. Real new ones might have a lot of zinc in them (which is really bad for detailed bullets with lots of sharp corners. The best way to determine is melt some and cast them, if they turn out sharp edges and fill out well you're good to go. Slushy melt and rounded corners or some don't melt at all... use it for sinkers, not bullets. Now, assuming you have good wheel weights, you can mix them with pure or dead soft lead..... in about equal parts by weight to create a very good alloy. This alloy should have around 2% antimony and 1/4% tin with the balance lead with some trace parts of other elements. This alloy will air cool to about 8 BHN or 19 BHN if water dropped. You can actually make it harder by oven heat treating to 5 degrees less than slump temperature or draw the 19 BHN water dropped bullets down to a lesser hardness by heating the bullets for 1/2 hour minimum at 400 degrees or less depending on what you want. All this involves a immediate dump into cold water at the end of the heat cycle. It takes a couple of weeks for any water dropped or oven heat treated bullet to stabilized in hardness and internal structure. This is an alloy that is easy to handle and cast with. I shoot normal handgun bullets air cooled and rifle bullets water dropped (about a 175 gr. 30 caliber rifle bullet at 2,400 fps dependent on barrel length with very good accuracy). Imagine burning a 20 round magazine thru a 308/7.62 and looking down the bore to a spotlessly clean gleaming sight. This alloy will do that when properly loaded.
Excessive antimony content will give what is called flash leading or antimony wash when looking at the bore at the muzzle. Reduce the antimony content and this goes away. You don't need much tin either as it is a grain refiner. If you increase the tin content up to the antimony content, you get what is referred to as a balanced alloy with little grain growth and no hardness increase to speak of.... not something I advocate. Now, is that enough Fermin?
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Post by Burnston on Jul 18, 2017 8:44:46 GMT -5
Thanks for all the input, gentlemen; that which I understood, as well as that which went way over my head.
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Post by 2 Dogs on Jul 18, 2017 9:05:46 GMT -5
Bob, with much respect and admiration, as Doc would say, "You're a Daisy"!!
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Post by boolitdesigner on Jul 18, 2017 10:19:38 GMT -5
Fermin, I put things like that up there when prodded....... for people to learn from, not to be confused by. If I could learn it, so could you and others. Ask questions when you want to know or understand what was put there for you people, I'm not a mind reader! Apologies to you all for my bluntness..............
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Post by 2 Dogs on Jul 18, 2017 11:25:30 GMT -5
Fermin, I put things like that up there when prodded....... for people to learn from, not to be confused by. If I could learn it, so could you and others. Ask questions when you want to know or understand what was put there for you people, I'm not a mind reader! Apologies to you all for my bluntness.............. I learned a lot from my big brothers and Dad too Bob. They slapped me so many times across the back of my head I have a flat spot. I'm pretty sure a few blunt words would be worth the lesson. For all the time and effort I have put into casting, alloys, molds, lubes, hardness, and such my efforts are DWARFED by Bobs. He has run ongoing tests for YEARS. Thanks Bob, again!
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Post by sheriff on Jul 18, 2017 11:36:08 GMT -5
Fermin, I put things like that up there when prodded....... for people to learn from, not to be confused by. If I could learn it, so could you and others. Ask questions when you want to know or understand what was put there for you people, I'm not a mind reader! Apologies to you all for my bluntness.............. I learned a lot from my big brothers and Dad too Bob. They slapped me so many times across the back of my head I have a flat spot. I'm pretty sure a few blunt words would be worth the lesson. For all the time and effort I have put into casting, alloys, molds, lubes, hardness, and such my efforts are DWARFED by Bobs. He has run ongoing tests for YEARS. Thanks Bob, again! AMEN!
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Post by 2 Dogs on Jul 18, 2017 11:41:05 GMT -5
Bullet casting "101" or maybe "102" behind bullet fit is, don't shoot them too hard if you're shooting mid range loads! Dick To this I would add, only shoot as hard of a bullet as you have to. Dont load a bucket of ammo without testing your alloy. It's all about what your sixgun will tolerate. A lot of what your sixgun will tolerate depends on how it is set up dimensionally.
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