Anyone chronographed vintage 357 loads?

[timothy]

I remember years back an article where brian pearce tested a 1956 model 29 and ammo of the same year. I was wondering if anyones ever had the chance to chronograph any vintage 158gr lwsc rounds in any barrel length. Thanks

[rWt]

Great question!

I have the same question about vintage 38 Spl. loads.

I've read any number of articles that state that the recipe has been watered down for current production ammo.

[ezekiel38]

The 38/44 catagory of loads, meant for N frame Smiths and I frame Colts are hot 38 Specials. 158 lswcs at 1100-1150 fps. Remington used to call them their "Hi-Speed" load and were meant for Highway Patrol use.

38 Spl lead bullets were usually anemic 158 lrn or 200lrn at 700 fps. Lee Jurras and Super Vel changed the 38 landscape forever. Light jacketed bullets at high velocities became the go to round for police and the self defense minded citizen.

[oddshooter]

I have seen reports of the 1930's 357 magnum factory ammo in the 1500fps range.  Using a bullet above 158g, there were no problems.  Problems arose from light bullets pushed past hot rod speeds (more powder required).  Most, but not all, 38/357 ammo sold today is anemic.

My LAX 38 special now hits 700's fps and
the LAX 357mag hitting 800's fps. Those are $.26 and $.30 each. Inexpensive, shoots nice, but mouse farts.

I also see 1350fps on Armscore 357mag.   Ouch, it has quite a kick in a lightweight handgun.

Factory ammo has a huge range of velocities. Handloaders get exactly what they want.


Prescut
PS The folks with ancient ammo are mostly collectors and they don't shoot it.  Your best bet is to read old velocity reports from the period you're interested in.

[Deleted]

The original pressure limit for 357 mag was 42,000 CUP. This worked fine until people tried using full power loads full time in Smiff K frames, which started coming unstrung shortly thereafter. Then SAAMI dropped the limit to 40,000 CUP. Still the K frames died, they were a 60 year old design after all, never designed for such abuse. So it must be the ammunitions fault. Now SAAMI limits are at 35,000 PSI. There are no direct correlations between CUP & PSI measurements of course, at least supposedly nothing that could be done mathematically.

The story is that we can now measure chamber pressures more accurately, and we've been abusing guns from the beginning. So now we have lightweight 38 Spl +P and 357 magnums in J frames? BTW, many old 38-44 loadings are now rated above proof levels for 357 magnum. I suppose its only fair, we have "progressed" from being a nation of self-sufficient hunter-gatherers to being dependent couch potato consumers, and paper targets don't require much killing.

Other calibers have been similarly emasculated. And I almost forgot, newer versions of the same old powders are more efficient now, and are capable of higher pressures with lower charges.

ETA: Grumble, grumble, grumble,....

[jimtx]

The original 357mag loads were very hot by today's typical load standards. But even today still one of the best "one shot stops" cartridge/load is 357mag 125gr JHP.

[ezekiel38]

Many of those old 357 loads were chronoed from 8 3/8s inch barrels, to make the "bullet&powder" companies look better to the consumer. The big distraction for me in 357 is the muzzle blast. Sig was thinking when they designed the 357 Sig I would like a pistol chambered in 357 Sig. 1350fps/ 125 JHP in a Semi Auto, great SD platform.

Original 357s were promoted as hunting pieces, until presented to the FBI.