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Post by mart on Mar 31, 2017 18:13:21 GMT -5
Okay guys this question has been in the back of my mind for a while. I see many references to WFN and LFN styles of bullets but not near as many for the WLN. I have always preferred the WLN but really can't say in my limited experience it's any better than either of the others. I have two molds from LBT for a 41-280 WLNGC and a 44-300 WLNGC. They were the first two custom molds I ever bought and both bullets have been accurate in every 41 and 44 I've had. Sometimes spectacularly so. So what is your favorite? And do you see any advantage to one over the other; game performance, long range accuracy? My shooting has always been limited to under 100 yards at targets and 50 and under on game. Honestly the only game to fall to my handguns have been one doe whitetail and a cougar. The doe was with a Nosler 210 grain 41 from a four inch S&W 57 and the cougar with the 280 grain LBT from a 6.5 inch Blackhawk. I can say unhesitatingly the LBT bullet was adequate for the cougar. The Nosler did well on the doe but I have since drank the cast bullet koolaid and don't shoot jacketed bullets in my revolvers any more. Your thoughts are appreciated. Mart This is the 44-300 WLNGC from my LBT mold. Almost too purty to shoot.
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Post by whitworth on Mar 31, 2017 18:22:21 GMT -5
I like both WFNs and WLNs. For me handgun hunting is an up close and personal prospect, so how the bullet flies at 200 yards is of no consequence to me. I want the bullet to make the biggest possible hole, and this is where the WFN (WLN should have the same meplat size) shines over the LFN. I want to take full advantage of the bore size.
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Post by sixshot on Mar 31, 2017 19:30:31 GMT -5
Congratulations on your doe & your Cougar (Lion) both fine trophies with a handgun! The 2 bullets you mention will handle anything in North America if you do your part. I lean towards the WFN in my hunting guns but many like the long range potential of a LFN & are willing to sacrifice some meplat to get there. I guess that's why they make chocolate & vanilla.
Dick
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Post by bigbrowndog on Mar 31, 2017 22:14:21 GMT -5
I prefer WFN for my hunting handguns and rifles that use cast bullets and have not had accuracy issues that would keep me from using them out to 200. Even with some resembling wadcutters when shot in rifles.
Trapr
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gjn
.30 Stingray
Posts: 491
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Post by gjn on Apr 1, 2017 8:58:28 GMT -5
I have long been a fan of the WFN and most of my molds are that design. However for top loads with a heavy for caliber bullet I prefer the WLN with a .5 nose provided the cylinder can handle the extra length. I find the wide metplat on the WFN and WLN's hits hard.
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COR
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,522
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Post by COR on Apr 1, 2017 9:38:04 GMT -5
WFN is caliber minus .09" and LFN is caliber minus .125" in LBT terms. In your 44 sized at .430 the WFN is .340 and the LFN is .305. .035 difference .... The meplat tends to dominate these discussions but if you have a mold then you have the flexibility of tailoring your alloy to your game and unlocking the potential of the cast slug. A LFN with a proper alloy will give up nothing to a WFN. With proper alloys you can get expansion and if you add the HP you can really start cooking but that's a broader topic. If you are limited to commercial casting with BHN numbers in the 20's you may convince me that you do get a .035 bigger hole with the WFN but still...
By tailoring your alloy to your game and using the most accurate slug profile in your gun you will quickly move beyond the limitations and be able to focus on accuracy at all ranges and give up nothing in terms of terminal performance. I've seen the light from men like Sixshot with his soft nose pours that slam the largest game in the US and from Zeus with a hp that opens up like perfect mushroom measuring 3/4 of an inch as some recent examples.
The profile becomes the focus and we get tunnel vision due to self imposed limits of a cast slug when in reality it is such a flexible medium that I'm just beginning to understand myself. Men like Fryxell have covered it in ways I can't even begin to properly describe but I learn more from every pound of lead and pound of powder I burn through... I really like the LFN and Keith design but I have a few .44's that love the WFN profile. The RN even has its place in the field if you ask me. The 429383 comes to mind.
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Post by CraigC on Apr 1, 2017 11:06:30 GMT -5
I'll take a WLN or WFN and minimal deformation every time. A bullet that holds its shape will yield predictable results in any target. I use cast bullets because I do not want to depend on expansion for effectiveness. That just introduces more opportunity for failure. Starting with a .44 or .45, no expansion is necessary, which is the whole point of using them over jacketed bullets. But such tinkering keeps the bullet casters happy. And yet people will argue until they're blue in the face that the .45Colt is significantly more effective than the .44Mag, a 0.022" difference. Or that the .475 is significantly more effective than the .45Colt, a 0.024" difference. These incremental differences obviously matter to some.
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Post by bulasteve on Apr 1, 2017 11:15:46 GMT -5
Good stuff ! With bigger bores, comes more flexibility. Multiple choices will work. Here, handgun hunting means second growth or swampy thickets. Can't imagine risking a 1st shot beyond 50yds or any shot beyond 100 yds. So, I'll err on the side of meplat, I like WFN's. If I were to look at an out west spot and stalk hunt or tundra, I'd have to see where I think that WFN becomes a liability. It may not, and more likely I'll be the liability. With the distances I'm working with, I also do not need more of the bullet outside the case to chase that last 100fps. Just not needed. Have killed 2 big bodied river bottom bucks with Federals CastCore loads. I don't see where the extra 100fps that the gourmet loaders get outta their offerings are worth the money. A worthy discussion and all here know that without accuracy, meplat and velo a moot point.
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Post by whitworth on Apr 1, 2017 11:18:37 GMT -5
I was trying not to introduce more variables that make this more complicated than it needs to be. When comparing the three nose profiles outlined by the OP, we have to assume the same alloy and hardness between them or else it becomes an apples to grapes comparison. I would add that it also depends on what you intend to hunt. If whitetail is all that's on the menu, I don't think any of this makes a lick of difference. When game goes 1,500 lbs + on the hoof, it's a different ballgame.
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Post by tradmark on Apr 1, 2017 13:16:23 GMT -5
Very very true whit. For deer it doesnt matter. We saw a lot of variation in hondo that mirrors what i have seen in africa. Guys that were oh so please on antelope up to eland were very pleased only to watch a 20k cape buff run off never to be found. It all changes when heavy bone is hit. What youre hunting is key to the conversation.
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Post by tradmark on Apr 1, 2017 13:17:52 GMT -5
It also really changes things when u catch the failures on video. When u can see visual confirmation you hit it in the boiler room and cant convince yourself you went a little low you face realities that you otherwise arent forced to face without that video.
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Post by mart on Apr 1, 2017 13:23:20 GMT -5
Thanks guys for all the good insights.
I'm not likely to ever do long range work with a handgun, other than ringing a steel plate or busting rocks. I'll keep my game shots to 50 yards and under, I might stretch to 100 with a solid rest and lots of practice but closer is better. I measure my handgun accuracy not in MOA but in MOTBSOAB (minute of the broad side of a barn, though the barns are getting smaller) so the long range capabilities of a revolver bullet have never entered into the equation for me. I have had excellent luck with the WLN profiles in my revolvers as far accuracy and their game performance is long proven. And as foolish as it sounds I just plain like the looks of the WLN profile.
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Post by sixshot on Apr 2, 2017 0:57:47 GMT -5
That's a mighty big Cape Buffalo (20K) the one's I seen were a bit smaller..... April Fool's Day!
Dick
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Post by CraigC on Apr 2, 2017 8:25:18 GMT -5
Think that was dollars, not pounds. Because if you draw blood, you pay the trophy fee.
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Shakey
.327 Meteor
Central Arkansas
Posts: 543
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Post by Shakey on Apr 2, 2017 23:55:18 GMT -5
Interesting thread here but, like some of the others who have commented, I am satisfied that the WFN will do all I need. I am only hunting smallish whitetails and the cover and talent make "long-range" accuracy a moot point.
I accept that bluff nosed bullets like wadcutters and WFN/WLNs lose stability and accuracy at some point but really don't understand why. Is this is related to velocity, ...or spin, …or what? If anyone can explain, I'd appreciate it.
Also, I have read that a bullet which is barely stable enough in air to give good accuracy can become unstable upon striking game and not stay head-on or give (relatively) straight penetration. Sounds reasonable but, does anyone have any experience along this line to suggest whether it is true of not?
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