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Post by Quick Draw McGraw on Mar 18, 2017 20:19:30 GMT -5
So I was cleaning my Ruger Super Redhawk in .454 Casull when I noticed something on the forcing cone that frankly concerns me.   Here's one more view  So how bad is this, and what can I do to fix it? Furthermore, what caused this in the first place? |
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Post by potatojudge on Mar 18, 2017 22:02:14 GMT -5
Can you feel the cutting with your fingernail (I'm just curious, that's not diagnostic to my knowledge)?
What kind of loads are you using? Round count?
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Post by Quick Draw McGraw on Mar 18, 2017 22:21:33 GMT -5
They can be felt with a fingernail. I'm using mostly handloads. Round count is probably around 600 to 700
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Post by potatojudge on Mar 18, 2017 22:23:12 GMT -5
What loads?
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Post by Quick Draw McGraw on Mar 18, 2017 23:12:03 GMT -5
Mostly 300gr. XTPs at around 1,600 fps
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Post by Quick Draw McGraw on Mar 19, 2017 1:10:37 GMT -5
So I read some comments from the Ruger forum by David Bradshaw. I have used Lil' Gun and apparently David said that can create this type of forcing cone erosion. Not sure if this is the only factor or if there is more happening here. I am certain that sooner or later I'm gonna have to do something about this. 😒
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Post by Encore64 on Mar 19, 2017 1:22:44 GMT -5
So I read some comments from the Ruger forum by David Bradshaw. I have used Lil' Gun and apparently David said that can create this type of forcing cone erosion. Not sure if this is the only factor or if there is more happening here. I am certain that sooner or later I'm gonna have to do something about this. 😒 It looks like the damage I've seen caused by Lil Gun. I know Bob Baker told me not to use it in my FA guns. Taking him at his word, I don't use it in any revolvers. Have used it in Contenders, Encore and rifles for years without damage. |
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Post by magpouch on Mar 19, 2017 7:33:40 GMT -5
I suspect that Ruger would be willing to fix that with a new barrel for next to nothing due to the small number of rounds fired and due to the issues they have been having with S/R barrels. You should ask them.
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Post by potatojudge on Mar 19, 2017 8:02:58 GMT -5
I'm curious, the barrel face is eroded but the forcing cone looks clean. Has anybody noticed accuracy issues with this condition? Is there any danger in just continuing to shoot it?
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Post by magpouch on Mar 19, 2017 9:06:03 GMT -5
As I understand it the erosion is not big deal in terms of safety or accuracy at least until it gets to be extreme. The problem is that it only took so few rounds to get there. Just seems like softer than normal barrel, but my experience is quite limited.
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Post by bradshaw on Mar 19, 2017 9:32:30 GMT -5
Quick Draw McGraw.... aggressive BARREL FACE EROSION to be sure. Accuracy-wise, we shot revolvers to notably greater erosion in silhouette without falloff of competitive accuracy. An asymmetric erosion pattern tends to reflect chamber-to-bore misalignment (runout). SPITTING usually develops with the advance of erosion. However, spitting is a separate subject; a look at it would hijack this thread.
Encore64 reports excellent results from Lil Gun in firearms with intrinsic chambers, thus does not condemn the powder outright. I would not load any more Lil Gun in your Super Redhawk, or other revolvers. The rivulets of erosion seen in your photos are not normal to Smith & Wesson, Rugers, and Dan Wessons I’ve shot----leastwise not until smooth erosion has advanced beyond that shown in your Super Redhawk. Winchester 296/H110, IMR/H4227, Hercules & Alliant 2400 produce erosion of the smooth sort----during the initial stage----and nowhere close to your round-count. Rivulets develop as erosion advances. A bevel of erosion on the face takes place, and rivulets start in that bevel.
The issue is more than pressure, possibly unusually high heat for a given pressure. Peak pressure from Lil Gun may hold longer than with the traditional magnum powders. Pressure, heat, time-applied. Note, this is not a declarative statement. Dwell time----time applied----is important when it comes to heat.
As for actual FORCING CONE EROSION----erosion in the cone itself----I would expect a powder with high nitroglycerine content to burn hot. Actual cone erosion was not a problem with the .357 Maximum, even at pressures higher than normal. Hercules 2400 was the fastest powder I loaded, with IMR 4198 the slowest. We didn’t have Lil Gun.
As for correcting your Super Redhawk, I might shoot a lot of rounds through it the way it is----unless it SPITS. I’ll take a guess from your photo that the forcing cone is concentric and not too deep. To correct for barrel face erosion----commonly referred to as “forcing cone erosion"----pull the barrel and lathe-turn the BARREL SHOULDER one thread, or however much it takes to then hand tighten to 10-degrees BTDC.
David Bradshaw
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Post by Encore64 on Mar 19, 2017 9:44:17 GMT -5
It was explained to me that as the powder starts to burn from the back, the remainder of the charge is forced forward.
As the pressure forces the granules of powder thru the cylinder gap it cuts as the pictures show.
As the gun is shot more, each channel acts like a small torch.
This is hearsay and not of my own accord. But, I've seen this on a number of revolvers. I inspect anything I buy second hand for this damage.
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Post by Quick Draw McGraw on Mar 19, 2017 13:29:29 GMT -5
Bradshaw thanks for the input. Thanks to everyone here too. I'm gonna reach out to Ruger and send the pics in. See if they think this is warranty material. If not, I have some work for Jack to do. I just sent him my Marlin, so I might be sending him more stuff soon.
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Post by Quick Draw McGraw on Mar 20, 2017 17:04:41 GMT -5
Ruger is being good enough to pay for a trip back to the factory for inspection, and if qualified, repair. I'll be putting it out in the mail hopefully tomorrow morning. I'm interested to hear their thoughts.
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Post by BigBore44 on Mar 20, 2017 17:11:31 GMT -5
Glad to hear they want it back to look at. I hope they fix it up lickity split, AND correctly!  BigBore44 |
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