.338 Federal?

[awp101]

Since I'm on a roll asking about and looking into calibers that are off the beaten path (.25-45 Sharps, 7mmTCU, .30-223), is anyone here using or working with the .338 Federal?

It looks like factory ammo is running ~$1/rd which is about the same as .358 Win. Does the .338 Fed have any real advantage over the .358?

[38 WCF]

Not sure about your question but I see that Starline is making brass for it now.

[bradshaw]

"Does the .338 Fed have any real advantage over the .358?”
----awp101


*****

My experience with the .338 and .358 bores primarily resides in custom XP-100’s. Borrowed John Towle’s XP-100 .358 Winchester----11-inch Douglas barrel with six cuts of Mag-na-Port, Bo-Mar sights and a Jimmy Gilman double pistol grip stock----at the inaugural IHMSA championship in 1977. Kicked like a Missouri mule, the side blast fairly rippling Edd Page, shooting beside me up on the ram line. If the .358 has any advantage, I reckon it may handle 250 grain bullets a bit more efficiently than the same case in .338. Tested Elgin Gates’ .338 IHMSA in an XP-100 with 15-inch barrel and the excellent H-S Precision Fiberthane stock. Too much! Elgin’s IHMSA starts with the .300 Savage case, necked to .338, with the shoulder fire formed to 38-degrees. The Gates IHMSA case has a relatively long neck, proper for long wheelbase bullets. Firing 40 rounds Creedmoor, straight through, puts a pounding on the elbow and/or wrist. That pounding is nerve pressure of a special kind.

A .308 Winchester necked to .338 or .358 offers more momentum than its parent .308, while amplifying recoil and trajectory. Neither equals the .338-06 or .358 Whelan, And must remain quite behind the .338 Win Mag and .358 Norma Mag. If you’re thinking handgun, then the .308 case is vastly better than .30-06 or magnum brass.

My preference in .338 runs to the .338 Win Mag in a good bolt action rifle. My preference in .358 runs to the .357 Maximum in a good revolver, with all-round use favoring the Ruger single action.

Now, if that is not objective enough, we’ll try again,
David Bradshaw

[awp101]

Mar 10, 2017 9:29:43 GMT -5 bradshaw said:

Now, if that is not objective enough, we’ll try again

It's certainly a good start!

Thinking ahead and trying to do some prudent planning. I'm looking into picking up a bolt action Savage in .223 and one in .308. From there I'll have the option to play with different calibers based on those two cases. .358 Win has always been interesting to me but I hear very little about the non-magnum .338.

[boolitdesigner]

Try looking into the 375 Raptor. It's a 308 based .375 caliber cartridge for the AR 10's.

[nolongcolt]

My dad was a big fan of the .358 Win, I have owned a .338-06 and several Win mags. At present own a Winnie in a Ruger 77 Express. Great rifle and cartridge.
The .338 Minnie will shoot a little flatter than the .358 and hit nearly as hard, but as noted it cannot equal the 06 based rounds.

[jsh]

The Savage platform was looked down on by many for years, me included. I guess maybe they were to cheap and not the best looked at the dance.
I picked up my first one about 25 years ago. It had been highly modified, did away with the barrel nut, weighs an even 13lbs with no scope. An old local gunny had built it, but never fired it before he passed. I picked it up for a song. Brought it home mounted a scope, checked the chamber and throat clearance, tight but very nice. One of the most boring rifles I own.
Fast forward a number of years. I picked up a 22-250 with the same line of thought as you. 358 is said to be highly over looked cartridge and also said to be a great CB shooter. The 22-250 had not had a good cleaning for some time from the looks of it. Three seperate times of wipe out and you would have to look long and hard to find better. Got bored with that and ordered a 358 Shaw kit from midway. Off with the 22 and on with the the 35. Did a bit of cleaning on it, then with jacketed shoot some clean some. After about 30 rounds groups started to tighten but got no better. Ran three of the Tubb lapping bullets through it. Each getting tighter. We quite when 1"@100 was the norm. I was afraid it was going to open back up and not shrink again. Buddy wanted me to keep going.
After a good cleaning some CB's were loaded mid range. I will be darned if they didn't shoot just as good as the jacketed. It has since stayed right at 1" with about any 180-225 CB.
Now here is the kicker. The dang blasted barrel is a magnum contour. IMHO just plain silly.
Buddy had a 338-08,he kept it long enough to decided he could down load his 338WM and be just as happy.
I played with a 338-06 encore barrel for a bit. It just didn't trip my trigger.
On thing a gent mentioned to me on 338, there are pretty much no bad 338 bullets and there are no cheap ones either. I still have an assortment of 338's if you have need for them.
I picked up a long action in 270 from Cabelas several Christmas' ago, one of there exclusive models. 26" barrel, reloader 26 and a 150 SST, this thing is right at 7 mag velocities! Is pretty much sub MOA out to 425ish to boot. I bought the thing to rebarrel to 6.5-06, but now I won't.
There are some die hards for the 338, which I am to a point,magnum case. Bullet selection for good performance may be slim for the smaller case.
The 358 didn't make the hit list, I doubt the 338-08 will do any better. It is all pretty much in the writers hands.
There are several cartridges I myself would like to play with, the Savage platform sure makes it easy AND is way better than the thoughts of old let it be. I have several now and still looking at more.
FYI have a look at the Rem Age set ups. Very interesting idea. I have read no bad thoughts from those that have done it hands on.
Jeff

[awp101]

Mar 10, 2017 16:45:46 GMT -5 boolitdesigner said:

Try looking into the 375 Raptor. It's a 308 based .375 caliber cartridge for the AR 10's.

Actually I did before I decided I didn't want to get into the larger AR10 chassis. Never thought about it in a bolt action...

nolongcolt, my gun running buddy has a .338-06 built on a US Model of 1917 (aka Enfield P17), I'll have to ask him how it shoots. Last we talked about it was when we did some horse trading for a vintage Weaver I had that we thought would look great on it. I've always heard the .33 calibers have a limited bullet selection. Is this no longer true?

Now that I think about it, I think the .223 action could be used for the .308 stuff as well with a bolt head swap. If that's the case then I could look at a long action as well to try stuff like the Whelen, 6.5-06 etc.

This train of thought is driven less by building a dedicated hunting rifle or target rig. I know how fast my interests change and I have a thing for wanting to try out different calibers, especially older wildcats and oddballs. The switch barrel Savage rifles are perfect for this (IMO).

[boolitdesigner]

Mar 10, 2017 19:13:02 GMT -5 awp101 said:

Mar 10, 2017 16:45:46 GMT -5 boolitdesigner said:

Try looking into the 375 Raptor. It's a 308 based .375 caliber cartridge for the AR 10's.

Actually I did before I decided I didn't want to get into the larger AR10 chassis. Never thought about it in a bolt action...

I've thought about it in a Ruger GSR.......... a 285 gr. cast bullet going close to 2,400 fps has good range.

[nolongcolt]

There is an ample variety of .33 bullets to choose from. I keep my eye out for 200 Nosler Ballistic Tips as they shoot really well and don't kick much with medium burn powders.

[awp101]

I stand corrected on bullet selection. It's quite possible I was reading an old article or possibly the Ackley books and forgot the time frame.

Mar 10, 2017 19:53:30 GMT -5 boolitdesigner said:

I've thought about it in a Ruger GSR.......... a 285 gr. cast bullet going close to 2,400 fps has good range.

And thump on the receiving end.

jsh, lack of trigger time keeps me from being as proficient as I'd like, but hands down the most accurate rifle I've had was a Savage 10FP2LE in .308. Traded an unassembled HK G3 kit for it around 2004-2005. Guy said he couldn't get it on paper at 25 yds and I knew it had to be something simple. A couple of hours at the range and swapping 2 or 3 scopes around on it had me wondering. Finally I reversed the order of the scope mounts even though they weren't marked, and I was on paper right away. It was an easy rifle to shoot well after that and I've been sold on them ever since.

If I find I Remage in the same price range as a Savage I'll give it a good look but I don't know where the advantage is over the Savage? I simply haven't paid enough attention to them to know.

[zac0419]

I had one in a Kimber 84 for a while. I primarily used 185gr Barnes and 200gr (IIRC) Fusions. It was a cool caliber.

30-06 juice with a .33 caliber bullet.

[mbaneacp]

FWIW, I have a Wilson Combat .338 Federal…injuries prevented me from getting into the field with it over the last season, but it is hands-down my favorite AR right now. Billy Wilson says it's pretty much the only gun he hunts with these days. For an episode of SHOOTING GALLERY Richard Mann and I are going to South Africa on a "Scout Rifle Safari" for plains game in June. His gun will be a one-off Rem Model 7 in .308; mine will be an old Ruger Frontier .338 Federal, as overhauled by Freddie Blish@ROBAR. I chose the .338 for just a little more ummph than my GSR .308 with heavier bullets, and with the Scout set-up it is, realistically, a 300-yard rifle.

Michael B

[markhampton]

My limited experience is based around two handguns -- Encore and Freedom Arms single-shots, both wearing 15 inch barrels with muzzle brakes in addition. I have only hunted with Federal factory ammo with 180 gr. Accubonds. Took seven head of African game with seven shots -- including a monster Livingstone eland in Mozambique. Last fall I took a Shiras moose in Utah with the FA.  Never experienced any problems with any game. 

In 15 inch barrels, I was getting 2516 fps with the Federal factory 180 gr. AB.  The same load from a Savage Bear Hunter rifle produced 2720 fps.  During testing I also chronographed Federal's Power Shok 200 gr. SP, Fusion 200 gr., Fusion MSR 185 gr., American Eagle 185 gr. SP -- along with several handloads consisting of Hornady's 200 gr. SST, Hornady's 200 gr. FTX, and Nosler's 180 gr. AB.


From what little I've hunted with the cartridge, I have been very pleased.  It's definitely not a magnum but has been accurate and inside 300 yards, it has performed well.

[bigbrowndog]

This past weekend while gathered around a campfire during a hog hunt, I was asked if I could have any rifle to "hunt" hogs with what would it be. My initial response was any cartridge in the 308 class. But there were stipulations, while I have hunted pigs and worked on destructive animal abatement for the last 30 odd years, I have seen a lot of failures and disappointments with bullets, not calibers just bullets. My stipulations were regarding standard "cup n core" bullets and premium bullets. If you choose to use premium then you can get away with lighter bullets, if not then heavier is better. Simply because pigs are heavier boned, heavier muscled and tougher than deer of the same weight.
The three top contenders for best all around use on pigs from 25 to 250 yards, were 308, 338 Fed, and 358. I would not feel handicapped by either of those choices and they are all available in suitable hunting rifles. While the 338 Fed and 358 are good thumpers and handle heavier bullets compared to the 308, the 308 is available EVERYWHERE, Europe, Africa, Asia, Scandinavia, South America,......EVERYWHERE!!! It handles Elk sized game with 180/200 gr bullets, or 165gr premium bullets.
It provides a very suitable trajectory for hunting out to 300, Although with the advent of laser rangefinders, flat trajectory is not nearly as important as it once was.
I have used 308, and 358 on pigs ranging in size from 50 pounders to 300+, with proper bullets, and proper placement both kill well, I have used a 338-06 on pigs and it is excellent as well. Choosing a bullet that will guarantee an exit is by far the best choice, I've had failures to exit from 308 with 150gr bullets, 338 225gr bullets, and 358 225gr bullets, but all were cup n core and all where required to penetrate maximum distance in the animal.

In the end my choice was a 308 loaded with 165gr premium or 180gr cup n core bullets for hunting,.........when required to kill them while guiding or on animal control work, I tend to go with 9.3x62 and 286gr Barnes TSX or one of my big lever guns in 45-70, Or 50 Alaskan.

Trapr