Frame Mounted Firing Pins?

[Burnston]

I got into the S&W game a little late in life, but I was raised on the stories of Skelton and Keith with their praise of the .44, both special and mag. Attempting to relate to the greatest and fastest shrinking generation, I bought the pictured S&W 21-4 in .44 Special, which has been one of the greatest purchases of my short 30 years. I dressed it out with a slick Tennyson made rig and had Mr. Grashorn make up a set of masterpiece ellk service grips to tickle that stag craving I was born with. I've also got a Tyler t-grip on order to add the finishing touch. 
When excitedly telling an "old hand" about my new Smith, he casually replied, "Yeah, but its not a pre-lock, and its got a frame mounted firing pin." So disheartened was I by his response that I had to go out and buy a Model 19 in .357 with a hammer mounted firing pin just to right the ship.
Can anyone shed some light on why the "old timers" (and I mean that respectfully) cringe at the sight of a frame mounted firing pin? Am I wasting money by buying these new Smiths with safeties and frame firing pins? Tell me what I'm missing.
 

[rjm52]

Nothing wrong with your gun...and this comes from someone who bought his first S&W in 1970...

As to the debate over the firing pin on the hammer vs. frame mounted, I find nothing wrong with the frame mounted ones and believe that in the long run are less prone to breakage. My favorite S&W of the 45 I own is a 1999 vintage Mountain gun that has the frame mounted firing pin.

As to the Inter-lock most S&W purists look at them as the at the time British parent company of S&W selling out to the Klinton administration..."for the children". Unfortunately the company who ended up buying S&W from the British holding company was the same one who invented the IL for them... As it is a STORAGE lock having nothing to do with the safety/safe operation of the firearm it is totally unnecessary. The locks also have a well deserved reputation of self-activating during recoil...not something you want to happen during a self-defense situation. I had two Smiths with the IL and removed the IL and replaced it with "The Plug" available from one of the members of the S&W Forums.

Bob

[hughree]

Nicely done. Your ship does not list in the least.

[Burnston]

Thank you both for the input.
rjm52, is it possible to put me in touch with this forum member who deals in these plugs? Also, are these self installed or is it a gunsmith job? I've never had the lock engage itself, even after several hundred rounds, but I suppose it only takes once.

[Rimfire69]

I like your set up. I don't own one that new so can't comment on the lock or frame mounted firing pin, but what you have there looks great.

[Burnston]

Thanks. It's my pride and joy, in spite of what my mentor told me.

[jdoc]

S&W introduced frame mounted firing pins; because, they handle high pressure loads with less primer cup flow. Primer cup flow between the firing pin and recoil bushing can result in making the revolver inoperable. S&W initiated a very large recall on their "L" frame models in the 1980s. At the time there was a high profile failure during a LE engagement involving the hammer mounted firing pin. S&W subsequently redesigned the hammer mounted firing pin and corresponding bushing. Later yet, S&W started modifying the line utilizing frame mounted firing pins as used presently.

[bradshaw]

The first question to ask of a POLITICAL LOCK on a firearm is, does it increase reliability, and your security, when the chips are down?
Answer: No.

The mechanically rebounding hammer & trigger of the Smith & Wesson is among the safest of all PASSIVE SAFETY systems. Upon release of the squeezed trigger, a block of steel withdraws the hammer and drives the trigger forward to RESET. This block of steel, called the REBOUND SLIDE, makes it exceedingly unlikely the revolver will fire without intention. As the trigger is released and the rebound slide resets the trigger. a small bar of steel called the HAMMER BLOCK cams on a pin in the rebound slide, causing the bar to rise between frame and retracted hammer.

Frame mounted
Now on to the frame-mounted firing pin, a.k.a. FLOATING FIRING PIN. Most floating firing pins are spring loaded to rebound upon release of the the trigger. The floating firing pin is held in the standing breech by a bushing, with the bushing either pressed & pinned or threaded. The floating firing pin requires less metal removal from the standing breech, provides for a close fit between pin & bushing, and for these reasons is suitable for high pressure rounds. A frame mounted firing pin would not have worked at all for the Dick Casull’s .454 Casull or Ruger’s .357 Maximum. Ruger proved more than any other manufacturer the durability of a floating firing pin. Durability varies by manufacturer, with Ruger at the top, S&W K-22 likewise, the Colt Python somewhere in the middle, and the Freedom Arms much more fragile. Early Dick Casull Freedom Arms revolvers had the pressed bushing, since that time replaced by a screw-in bushing. (Recommendation: if you have an earlier Freedom Arms M83 with pressed bushing, Send it to FA to retrofit the screw-in bushing.) A spanner screwdriver enables the owner to painlessly swap out a broken pin. The rule with an FA is to not dry fire, or to do so only with heavily sprung snap caps in place, or a piece of leather or chunk of lead in the hammer slot of the frame.

Hammer mounted
Classic Smith & Wessons----not the ones with “classic” written on them----have the old HAMMER NOSE style firing pin. I have seen these break----usually the rivet----but never on a gun of mine. Whether a hammer mounted firing pin is of the conical Peacemaker type or the thin S&W, metal is removed behind standing breech for clearance. Some wiggle-room between firing pin and frame is necessary to avoid peening. Most S&W hammer’s have a spring to preload the firing pin downward. The firing pin barely contacts the bushing @ 6 o’clock.

Primer blanking
PRIMER BLANKING is the flow of primer cup into the firing pin hole, or around the firing pin. The occurrence is most common on a worn revolver with hammer mounted firing pin. BLANKING will tie up the cylinder. Turn the cylinder by hand to clear. Do not force a jammed cylinder via the lockwork. Note also, a light mainspring can cause blanking with normal pressure. Pressure must be higher than magnum to blank cup material into the hole of a floating firing pin.
David Bradshaw

[hughree]

Both frame and hammer mounted pins have failed on me. I have a first-year Smith Model 610 with a hammer mounted firing pin. I shot exactly ONE rounds of CCI Blazer 40 caliber, aluminum ammunition when I heard a "ffffft" and saw a tiny curl of smoke. The primer had been pierced and the escaping gas torched the tip of the firing pin. One shot and it was a gone pecan as they say on the bayou. Smith fixed it under warranty. I still have a box of CCI's somewhere with 49 rounds in the tray. I never had a problem with any other loads, factory or home brewed. Great gun, soft primer = N frame hammer.

Several weeks ago, I pulled a Smith Model 60-9 out of the safe to carry in heavy coat weather. I examined it, lubed it, and dry fired it once, maybe twice when I heard a "ping". The internal, frame mounted firing pin had broken and the tip had been propelled across the room. Better then than later if pressed into serious service. Smith sent a call tag, the revolver was repaired on their nickel and back in my hands in two weeks.

Guns should go "BANG", not "fffft" or "ping". Sometimes they do.

Pick your poison.

[seak89]

Frame is the way for me with ammo we shoot today