Wonky Data

[bulasteve]

I've mentioned a time or three, liking the old Speer 3/4 jacketed bullets in 44. To my knowledge they've been discontinued for years yet I still keep finding data using them as recently as 2014. Am I missing something, or are some industry folks sitting on pallets of these things. I just used up the last of my 225gr HP's as break in loads for my new M69 using CFE. Why would they spend time and effort to develope data for bullets we cannot buy anymore ? Seems like a waste of range, loading, and puter time for them.

[jdoc]

Is the data new or repeat publishing?

[bulasteve]

In two manuals it is shown with other components in the loading that leads me to believe the data new. Powders that are relatively new, etc.. The bullets in question haven't been listed by Speer for many years, sadly. They made great 44special bullets and handily dealt with leading issues while being less expensive to make than the "new and improved" type jacketed bullets that came after. With the homogenous and coated bullets gaining market share nowadays, maybe there is a niche left for these old bullets ? Wonder if Speer is still sitting on that equipment ?

[jdoc]

Might be worth a phone call or two. It would be interesting to hear what they say.

[bulasteve]

I HATE phones, but I think you may be right.

[bulasteve]

Ok, I hate phones but JDoc was right, so.. Made call. Lots of transfers, elevator music, polite female voices, but no knowledgeable people available. Can we call you later, um, no thanks. Corp dweeb america..sigh..Just spent a half hour previous with my work benefits folks,rumors of changes to plans we didn't make or know of, so patience a bit short. Still, call a bullet manufacturer and nobody knows bullets...nevermind.

[bulasteve]

So, who here knows when Speer quit making the 225gr SWC shaped JHP in .44 ? There was a soft point version of 240grs..

[ezekiel38]

Don't know when but think I know why. Speer was receiving reports of jacket/core separation on low velocity 44 loads. THE jacketed bullet to beat at the time in 44 was the Sierra 240 JHC that was loaded in the Federal 240 44 Mag offering. This was back before ATK and Federal became a sister company. Loads where jacket/ core separation were showing up was in the Charters and Rossis. That's my recollection.

[bradshaw]

"THE jacketed bullet to beat at the time in 44 was the Sierra 240 JHC that was loaded in the Federal 240 44 Mag offering."
***

ezekiel.... Federal made a look-alike to the Sierra .44 240 JHC. The Federal bullet, loaded in .44 Magnum as code #44A may be the only factory load to win championships in IHMSA silhouette. Certainly the 44A was most accurate commercial revolver ammo fired by this shooter. So much so, he would and did put it against handled. The Sierra 240 JHC and the Federal 240 JHP are visual and ballistic twins. Federal used an asphaltic seal in the case to hold the bullet. My suspicion that the seal would hurt accuracy proved utterly without merit. So what is “silhouette accuracy?” Both Federal 240 JHP and Sierra 240 JHC have grouped under 5” @ 200 meters from stock revolvers with factory iron sights in IHMSA competition.

Having watched Federal form the 240 JHP on its beautiful presses erased my own curiosity about their origin.
David Bradshaw

[bulasteve]

Well, those bullets were not likely to expand at 750-850 fps.. Hence my liking the Speer design.

[f3]

Its not too terribly hard to make those semi jacketed bullets. The dies are not cheap but jackets can be bought To offset cost of equipment to make jackets. I swage 41 bullets in a corbin mega mite press. Doesn't answer the data question,though.

[bulasteve]

I'm not ready to go that far. The 200gr XTP is a decent second choice for the 44specials when JHP's are wanted. I opted to use up the last of my 225gr HP Speers as first loads for the new M69. The bore seems rough.

[2sheriffs]

A friend of mine had a trucking company back when Sierra and Starline were in the LA area. He hauled a lot of sierra bullets to Federal and other ammo makers. That's why Sierra and Starline moved to the Mid West. Their biggest customers were there. The first so called half jacket Speer bullets that I got from Speer had really short jackets. The problem with the half jacket bullets was the jacket would stick in the bore and the lead would keep going if you loaded them too light. The later manuals had minimum loads for them. If you had excessive cylinder gap, even the lighter load shown might not be enough. I still have a full box of the original 146 grain 357 hollow points that I bought back in the early 60's that have the really short jackets.
Ron