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Post by sixshot on Dec 14, 2015 15:33:52 GMT -5
For some reason I've never opened & read this post until today. Tank called me & ask if I had read it & what my thoughts were. Here's what I've done with both of my 480's in the last few years, first up is the Harton custom that Alan built for me about 5-6 years ago. When I started shooting powder coated bullets in it I always crimped in the bottom crimp groove & tested several different powders, finally settling on 21 grs of 4227. For the first few years I only shot regular cast bullets with either LBT blue lube or Lars Red. I never had a probelm with shaving or leading in any form. When I started powder coating in 2013 I never had any leading or shaving problems of any kind. I also sold or gave away a lot of these bullets to friends to show them the advantages of powder coating. I never heard anyone say anything about shaving, leading me to think this is probably a problem at the throat, possibly a sharp edge, etc. Also, as I've mentioned in the past many times, if you think you need a harder bullet you can water quench right out of the toaster oven. I've done this a few times but never really seen the need for it except for maybe with the 357 Maximum. Now, going back a few years when I was shooting tens of thousands of rounds in USPSA I did have a S&W model 610 that did this very thing we are talking about. For those of you who don't know about a 610 its a 10mm revolver & I shot 40 caliber ammo in it, seated long using 205 gr. cast slugs. these were not powder coated, they were lubed with LBT blue & I never had a problem & shot 54,000 one year. Now, let me back up a bit, I did have one problem, it would shave lead at the chamber, cylinder throat transition regardless of bullet hardness, sometimes in a big match I had to clean the cylinder to make sure my moon clips would extract smoothly. I always meant to have my gunsmith son correct it but never did. I use Hornady 480 dies, these are a 4 die set that allows you to seat with the 3rd die & crimp with the fourth. This, along with seating in the bottom crimp groove & having a smooth transition into the cylinder throats might cure the problem.
Dick
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Post by sixshot on Dec 14, 2015 15:59:51 GMT -5
Forgot one other thing, have you used a micrometer to check your bullets after running them through your lubrisizer. A soft bullet will have a little spring back after coming out of the sizer & if your powder coated slugs aren't going deep enough in your sizer plus being soft you might have a bullet thats slightly bigger than a regular cast slug, just a thought. Also, I've never had a problem with my new Ruger SBH Bisley with lead shaving using powder coated slugs. And as another thought, some lubrisizers size the bullet nose up & some size them nose down, this can make a slight difference. With many of my powder coated bullets when I size them I spray them first with Hornady One Shot Case Lube, this makes them much easier to size without galling inside the sizer.
Dick
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Post by Markbo on Dec 15, 2015 20:39:17 GMT -5
Tbats what I needed to get! The One shot case lube! Thanks for the reminder Dick!!!
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Paden
.375 Atomic
Lower Goldstream Creek
Posts: 1,132
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Post by Paden on Dec 15, 2015 20:49:38 GMT -5
Tbats what I needed to get! The One shit case lube! That stuff's crappy...
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Post by sixshot on Dec 16, 2015 12:51:48 GMT -5
Paden, you nailed it, I keep mine in a sealed milk can.......
Dick
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Post by Alaskan454 on Jan 11, 2016 13:33:23 GMT -5
Thought I might chime in here, I just tested some of the Missouri Bullet Co. 340gr in my 480 and had the same issue of lead rings showing up. It didn't happen with any of their traditionally sized and lubed cast bullets (.4765" for reference) but bullets of the same diameter with their powder coating left a ring in every cylinder. Didn't affect accuracy at all in my limited number of rounds fired but has me curious. Based upon where the rings originated it looks to be the crimped portion of the case mouth scraping at the bullet. About half of the ejected shells still had lead rings attached to the case mouth. Accuracy looked fine so normally I wouldn't care but the rings that don't come out with the case prevent the next round from seating properly as the chamber is obstructed. That's a problem.
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Post by BigBore44 on May 15, 2016 10:29:56 GMT -5
Bump it for keechikid.
BigBore44
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Post by Alaskan454 on May 15, 2016 11:23:17 GMT -5
BigBore44 reminded me, I have been trying to figure this out and it seems I get the rare ring when using regular cast bullets but almost every coated bullet produces a ring. The leade on the cylinder throats are a bit sharper than some of my other guns, maybe that's the culprit?
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Post by hoover on May 15, 2016 14:33:55 GMT -5
I've experienced the lead ring on about 5 of every 50 rounds shot of PC bullets. Not enough for me to pause, or be concerned. Accuracy is still excellent. As to cause, here is my SWAG (scientific wild assed guess) to the issue. PC bullets are softened during the baking process, lower than usually used for cast bullets. I believe the ring of lead is caused by the crimp on the bullet as the powder is ignited, causing the bullet to move forward BEFORE the crimp is relaxed, do to pressure. As the bullet moves forward while crimped, it scraps the bullet, causing a lead ring to develope. This probably occurs In microseconds, hence the reason the ring is so small. If it took longer, the ring would be much larger. The only reason I can think some have minimal issues, while others have major issues, has to do with crimp. I use the minimal amount of crimp necessary to get the job done. That is, just enough to keep the bullet from jumping its crimp groove during recoil. Play with the amount you crimp your brass. This may be the issue. Use just enough crimp to get the job done. Then again, I could be totally wrong.....
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Post by cherokeetracker on May 15, 2016 16:22:24 GMT -5
I read this finally for my first time today, and it occurred to me that not once was it mentioned, the chamfering of the case mouths. I will proably look at this, and I have considered the size of my bullets. My thinking is that it would be of some help to make sure that they are not to big since 1-2 thousands will be added from the powder coating. I also last night powder coated my first bullets. I did this with 357 and 45 cal bullets. I dropped them in cold water, and seeing what sixshot said ,,, I stunbled into doing something right. yeehaw I have deep seated bullets before, and I plan on doing this with these bullets. I, like Tank, use just enough crimp to allow the case to be chambered. My first time I deep seated cast bullets ( lubed by the way) I did use too much crimp. I learned from my first experience, and also noticed that the bullets were getting shaved, from not having enough Bell on the mouth. I looked and measured the bullets and they were larger than the usual cast. They did not get sized!! These being for my 44 SPL usually .430 is right and these were .436 They shoot and they fit in the cambers ( Which surprised me) I loaded these over 6.0 grains of Trail Boss and I backed off one complete turn on the crimp die. I will see what happens in the accuracy department.
I will try to look for any rings or lead shaved off, but doubt that this will happen.
Charles
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Post by keechikid on May 15, 2016 23:13:16 GMT -5
Next time I get a chance I am planning on lightening up the crimp I was using. I tend to use a pretty heavy crimp.
Thanks to everyone for the help on this. This forum is great about offering up help and advice. I have really enjoyed it and I am glad I found it. Everyone I have reached out to has been above and beyond helpful to an Internet stranger.
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ryan
.30 Stingray
Posts: 402
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Post by ryan on May 16, 2016 11:29:06 GMT -5
I experienced the "lead rings" again yesterday, this time with a new JRH mid-frame .480. Up until a few months ago I'd never experienced this before. The first time I ever saw it was while shooting PC versions of the MP 477-640 hp bullet through a custom 5 shot Blackhawk. With this gun and load it happens almost every shot. When using the same load in a BFR .475 I get nothing. Yesterday, however, I loaded 50 rounds of the same bullet, same load, with new Starline .480 cases and tried them in the above mentioned JRH gun and the same thing happened in all five chambers. Granted my experience with this stuff is still limited, but it's now happened in two different tight custom .480s. I've used both RCBS Carbide dies and Hornady (4 die set) and with different degrees of crimp. Accuracy doesn't seem to be affected at all but with the tight chambers I have experienced some difficulty in reloading a round until the ring is removed. My next step is to change to the lower crimp groove (I've only used the top so far) and try standard lead bullets to see if it changes anything. At some point I'll try the same bullet in the .475 as well but from what I understand it seems to be primarily in .480s. I would be interested in hearing if anyone has experienced this in other guns like the Redhawk, etc.
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Post by push480 on May 16, 2016 20:03:59 GMT -5
I am getting the lead rings in my SBH with lead bullets cast at 16 bnh from hardball alloy. I also get the rings with the same bullet powder coated. I have tried backing off the crimp, and doesnt seem to help. I do not get lead rings with missouri bullets 340 grain coated, or any bullet from cast performance. Im thinking my bullets are too soft even at 16bnh.
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Post by keechikid on May 17, 2016 8:42:36 GMT -5
Shooting my SBH there are no lead rings with the Cast performance 410 grain bullet over 21 grains of H110. 14 grains of HS-6 using the powder coated Mihec hollowpoint though had a lead ring on 4/5 cases with the 5 ring being in the cylinder.
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