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Post by bradshaw on Nov 28, 2015 0:14:06 GMT -5
jjsharpshooter.... since these fine lead rings occur in the cylinder, that is the point of origin----not the barrel. A dentist's pick pushed through each chamber should not bite the ramp between chamber and throat, rather just glide over the ramp. Providing the ramp is smooth, take another look at your seating to be sure no lead is shaved. Seat a few bullets without crimp. Use the crimp die just enough to permit clambering. Fire and check for the sheared ring of lead. For sure you want to put your finger on the problem. David Bradshaw
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Post by jjsharpshooter on Nov 29, 2015 21:23:04 GMT -5
David, checked the throats with a pick, glides smoothly in the chamber then rides roughly up the ramp and them smooth again in the throat, dont feel any type of ridge but can feel and hear the roughness in the ramp area.
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Post by bradshaw on Dec 3, 2015 10:36:46 GMT -5
As the sheared ring of lead continues to plague some members, it would be good to hear from a shooter who has cured the disease. I have always considered CRIMP PLACEMENT important to good ammunition and do not favor a crimp which may introduce damage to the bullet. As for the revolver CHAMBER----which some refer to as a "cylinder"----the LEADE, or ramp between chamber wall and chamber exit, wants to be smooth.
This ramp is critical to accuracy in a rifle. I believe the same is true for a revolver, despite the more abrupt leade angle in a revolver. (There is no leade in a cylinder chambered for an auto pistol cartridge, rather a ridge to headspace the case. No problem arises, since the case mouth flushes against the ridge. And this explains why the auto pistol round has a taper crimp, and why a roll crimp or excessive taper crimp must be avoided.) David Bradshaw
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Post by hoover on Dec 3, 2015 13:06:07 GMT -5
David, for years I have crimped cast bullets wherever needed without any decrease in accuracy. I have a LBT LFN dual crimp groove GC mold that drops slugs around 330 grs, as cast. I routinely deep seat these bullets for my .444 Marlins, crimping in the body of the bullet for proper overall length. My guns routinely shoot 1-1.5" groups of three at 100 yds, going in excess of 2100 fps. I always thought this another advantage of shooting cast bullets.
I really think this ring of lead is as noticeable to accuracy as fly$hit on the wall. For myself, I get around 5 rings of lead from a 50 round box of cartridges. All with the Miha .477 640. Keith style bullets don't seem to do it. I have also noticed, the more you shoot the guns, the less it seems to happen.
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jsh
.327 Meteor
Posts: 884
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Post by jsh on Dec 3, 2015 13:23:26 GMT -5
Those of you that don't have a lead ring issue, what dies are you using to expand/bell cases with? As to it not effecting accuracy. First five group and group well to excellent. After that it is larger and larger, patterns. The rings get bad enough that chambering a round is tough. That can't do anything but raise pressures. Not a complaint or whining. Just want to get this on track with my other wheel guns.
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Post by hoover on Dec 3, 2015 13:41:18 GMT -5
Jeff, I use Lee dies and crimp just enough to hold the bullet.
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Post by bradshaw on Dec 3, 2015 15:32:14 GMT -5
Jsh.... loading .45 Colt with RCBS dies, and .44 Mag with Redding, not limiting myself to either brand. Some of the Redding expander buttons have a minute step, which aids in starting the bullet straight without excessive belling.
Cannot dispute your result, nor Tank's. I'm in no mood to live with ammo that consistently shaves a ring of lead with every shot. There is a mechanical reason for it. Tank obviously loads accurate ammunition, little lead ring and all. Looking back years ago to the heavy shooting of silhouette, I doubt anyone playing hard for the winner's circle would abide such shaving. David Bradshaw
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jsh
.327 Meteor
Posts: 884
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Post by jsh on Dec 3, 2015 18:44:14 GMT -5
Well gents I was just curious. Loaded as cast, powder coated. Sized .477 and .476 PC'd. Then tumble lubed with alox+floor wax, sized .476. This has me scratching my head. Never had this ring thing ever. Thus my wondering on expander/belling die. I myself used a lee, which I am not 100% happy with. Buddy has a set of Lyman's. Both left a ring, same gun. This cylinder pinned .377, bore slugged .375, no thread choke. I thought it maybe a expander/belling issue. Sizing the bullet when seated and rolling a sliver up and below the crimp. Then I think again as Fermin mentioned, CB's may be to soft. Gun is well built and put together IMHO. Pretty sure what ever it is, is plainly simple and an easy fix/cure.
Another question for those that have had the lead ring issue. Any of you had this happen with a gas checked design? Jeff
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Post by bradshaw on Dec 3, 2015 20:04:04 GMT -5
jsh.... my guess, a gas check won't prevent the shaved ring of lead, as by the time the gas check passes the leade the ring is wider than the gas check. And I believe Tank is correct: presence of the ring doesn't hurt accuacy----under his and perhaps most conditions. But, whatever contributes to the ring of lead may also contribute to leading in the bore, and we know how that affects accuracy.
Another thing to watch for: fouling, especially lead vapor, around the barrel socket area of the frame. A powder coated bullet should not vapor-coat the frame. It is worth trying other bullets, including jacketed. A jacketed bullet is not immune to abrasion from a rough leade or chamber throat. Copper vapor in the frame indicates bullet abrasion. David Bradshaw
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Post by jjsharpshooter on Dec 3, 2015 23:13:12 GMT -5
I was getting lots of leading in the bore with the pc bullets that left the ring, however now that i'm lubing traditionally, no rings and no leading. Accuracy was good until the leading started.
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Post by Markbo on Dec 6, 2015 20:26:50 GMT -5
Ahhh... a clue!
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Post by bulldog on Dec 7, 2015 9:47:11 GMT -5
Has anyone had or even heard of anyone having this lead ring problem with the Super Redhawk or BFR revolvers in 480 Ruger? Bulldog...
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Paden
.375 Atomic
Lower Goldstream Creek
Posts: 1,132
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Post by Paden on Dec 7, 2015 23:02:18 GMT -5
I was getting lots of leading in the bore with the pc bullets that left the ring, however now that i'm lubing traditionally, no rings and no leading. Accuracy was good until the leading started. Were both the PC and non-PC bullets of the same type, sized exactly the same, and crimped to the same length? My money is still on the gut feeling/WAG that it's going to turn out to be a size issue.
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Odin
.327 Meteor
Posts: 971
Member is Online
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Post by Odin on Dec 8, 2015 0:18:07 GMT -5
Has anyone had or even heard of anyone having this lead ring problem with the Super Redhawk or BFR revolvers in 480 Ruger? Bulldog... I've got a BFR 475L/480R and I've been having the same issue. And I too have been shooting the MP-477640. I switched to the second crimp groove and it helped a bit, but the leading persists. Personally, I think it's an alloy related issue in my gun. I need to try a bit harder mix and see if it goes away. As David suggested, I checked the transition between chamber and throat and while it's not as gradual as my Bowen 475M, it is smooth. I won't have time to sort it out until after the holidays, but I'm none too worried. I'm sure it can be cleared up with a little work at the bench and the range. -Rod
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Post by jjsharpshooter on Dec 8, 2015 11:02:16 GMT -5
I was getting lots of leading in the bore with the pc bullets that left the ring, however now that i'm lubing traditionally, no rings and no leading. Accuracy was good until the leading started. Were both the PC and non-PC bullets of the same type, sized exactly the same, and crimped to the same length? My money is still on the gut feeling/WAG that it's going to turn out to be a size issue. Pc bullets were sized after pcing to the same size as the traditionally lubed bullets I am using now.
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