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Post by oregon45 on Oct 23, 2014 19:09:54 GMT -5
I've been reading over the back issues of American Handgunner available online and have become enamored with the early IPSC 1911's, particularly the Pachmayr Combat Special as used by Ross Seyfried and others.
I'm thinking of putting together a 1911 along the lines of the Combat Special and have a few questions: first, should I "build" at all when I can buy a Les Baer Boss .45 off the shelf? It has most of the features that the Combat Special had (hard chrome frame, blue slide flat topped and serrated, "buried Bomar" sights, extended thumb safety, etc.) as well as the usual Baer build quality.
Second question, if not Baer, how about a new production Colt Mark IV/Series 80 Gold Cup? It has the sights already installed, and I would likely send it to Clark Custom Guns to have the slide flat topped and serrated and the frame hard chromed; either them or Accurate Plating and Weaponry.
Next option: New production Colt Series 70. It would need everything the Gold Cup needs, but would require new sights.
What are the relative merits of a Colt-based build versus an off the shelf gun like the Baer Boss? I would not order one from Baer; I'm not waiting 18 months for this gun, I'd lose interest waiting that long.
Any thoughts on the Pachmayr Combat Special or the early IPSC 1911's in general? I freely admit that this build is based on aesthetics alone, and my desire for a certain "look" and feel, rather than any practicalities. I'm also on the hunt for early IPSC leather, particularly a Bianchi Chapman High Ride or a Milt Sparks Hackathorn Special and associated magazine carriers.
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Post by 2 Dogs on Oct 23, 2014 19:40:20 GMT -5
I wouldn't do it, ESPECIALLY since you can get a 1911 a like a Les Baer Boss immediately. (Yes, we have one in stock!)
There is just no comparison dimensionally between a Colt and a Baer. If you start with a Colt, you will far exceed the cost of the Baer just to get it correct dimensionally. I am referring to the series 70s, as a) I haven't measured too many 80s models, and b) the PCS guns were built on the series 70 style 1911s.
A Gold Cup is a) not going to "look" like a PCS and b) going to require welding to get the sights correct. It is also not available with checkering.
I'm sure I am going to take "flak" for this, but the Colt in NO WAY compares to the Baer quality. Thus. it lacks merit UNLESS you are willing to spend the requisite money to bring the Colt up to spec. I type that based on many many years and hundreds of thousands of rounds on 1911s and many thousands of dollars spent building custom 1911s.
A PCS is nothing more than a refined 1911 5". These guns were built at the time with the best technology available from the best materials available.
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Post by oregon45 on Oct 23, 2014 19:52:56 GMT -5
Thanks 2Dogs, I'll keep all that in mind. Good to hear you have a Baer Boss in stock, have to start saving my pennies and look forward to snow shoveling season
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Fowler
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Post by Fowler on Oct 23, 2014 21:19:24 GMT -5
Ok if we simplify this down it is like this: Ruger revolvers might be very accurate, they will probably shoot pretty good infact but to make it as accurate as a Freedom Arms you will spend a small fortune trying make it equal to a FA but it is doubtful it will ever shoot equal to a FA that is right out of the box. The platform a FA starts on is perfected before it starts where a Ruger is a rough casting that is cleaned up some but it isn't perfect.
Colt frames and slides are similar to Ruger frames, they are fine, functional, but a far cry from perfect. Les Baers are simply perfected before it even begins to be fitted together. Les Baer simply starts right and runs from there, my Baer has 25k+ rounds through it and it will still shoot 2" groups at 50 yards if I do my part, show me a Colt that will do that, they are mighty rare.
Yes I am a bit biased but I have had Colt 1911s, intact my first 1911 was one and I like the gun a lot. But it wasn't 100% reliable, would only hold 3-4" at 25 yards, and rattled something fierce. Safe yourself some time and money and follow Fermin's advice and just start with a Baer.
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Post by oregon45 on Oct 23, 2014 21:28:21 GMT -5
I'm detecting a trend here
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Post by jayhawker on Oct 23, 2014 23:27:33 GMT -5
Help me out with the guys name, but the South African pistolsmith that relocated to US and worked for Pachmier, now builds his own guns, still offers the PCS. Also, if you like the Hackathorn Spl holster, used by Ken to place high overall at the IPSC founding conference in 1976, Wilson Combat now offers a 1911 Hackathorn Spl. May be just what you want.
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Post by mike454 on Oct 24, 2014 6:18:52 GMT -5
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Post by bulasteve on Oct 24, 2014 10:55:54 GMT -5
If you are intersted in an old school, but tweeked, 1911, check out what they run in SASS. There is a class for 1911's. The "Wild Bunch", etc.. Otherwise I'd just look at a Ruger or Springfield or Smith'.
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Post by jayhawker on Oct 24, 2014 11:21:31 GMT -5
If you are willing to wait, Sparks will probably make you a Hackathorn Spl holster.
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Post by tangocharlie on Oct 24, 2014 18:36:59 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, (don't hesitate, my wife doesn't) but the original Pachmayr Combat Special had Smith & Wesson revolver sights. It shows my age, I guess, but they were functional and looked good. I had a Jim Hoag built 5-inch gun set up the same way for many moons that would feed anything that would fit in the magazine...gave it to my almost nephew on his birthday when he graduated from high school. Fine gun then and a fine gun now.
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Post by cas on Oct 25, 2014 19:13:50 GMT -5
The question is, are you looking for a tight accurate gun or are you looking for a retro repro homage to the Pachmayr Combat Special?
The Baer may be the better gun, but you may not need or even be after the better gun.
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Post by AxeHandle on Oct 26, 2014 16:15:54 GMT -5
Haven't owned a bunch of 1911s and never did shoot much. DID own a Pachmayr Combat Special in the 80s. Mine had a S&W rear. Most I ever saw had a Bomar rear. Now I'm old but I when I owned that PCS I was holding the best paper punching guns the US military MTU gunsmiths could build. I was at that time and am currently an active master class paper puncher. That Pachmayr had the best fitting and slickest slide to frame fit I'd ever had in my hands. For the money and a complete gun I'd go Les Baer... Don't go in with blinders on though. He builds good stuff but expect his stuff to be generally very top level production stuff. Find you a gunsmith and buy a Baer slide frame set to have a gun built on. I'll not bad mouth Colt. If you want a true PCS replica have your gun built on a pre series 80 Colt. The current manufacturing methods turn out some really good stuff but they will NEVER be a Colt.
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Post by jayhawker on Oct 27, 2014 11:30:18 GMT -5
Well said Axe.
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Post by tangocharlie on Oct 28, 2014 13:46:22 GMT -5
I bet Axe knows where that Pachmayr CS is at today...Caspian is also a good starting point for frames and slides. If you are looking for bottom line value, stick with a pre-Series 80 Colt.
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Post by AxeHandle on Oct 28, 2014 14:18:46 GMT -5
As a matter of fact I do.... Might even attempt to talk the owner out of it one day. This gun was built on a Combat Commander. Unlike most the front strap was not checkered or stippled. Additionally it did not have the "Broadfoot Link" and "Spherical Bushing" that the gun rags will lead you to believe that all PCSs had. Those beasties have reached big time collector status now days. It might take a brass monkey to get it back... I think I've got the original Pachmayr PCS literature somewhere in my stuff..
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