David Bradshaw Photos - Vol. XXXI

[Lee Martin]

Colt Delta Elite 10mm Auto with Glock 27 .40 S&W.





Colt 10mm Auto shoots & cycles .40 S&W reliably, ejecting .40s right beside gun.



Remington .40 S&W 180 JHP after 10 years heavy humidity storage. 15 rds chambered in Colt Delta, one misfire. No failures to feed nor to eject of 14 rds fired.



40 in 10mm: of 14 rds fired in Colt, 11 primers burned through.



Eleven pierced primers did not seem to affect accuracy of .40 S&W in Colt 10mm barrel, as 12x14 shots hit 55 gal drum @ 140 yards. Only top third of oil drum showing above snow.





Colt 10mm firing pin, spring, retainer, and passive firing pin safety. Firing pin shows very light etching after 11 pierced primers. Preceded by many burned primer pockets from corroded Blazer aluminum 10mm Auto. Blackness from carbon fowling and moly-disulfide chassis grease.



Remington .40 S&W 180 JHP fed perfectly through Colt 10mm, positive albeit weak ejection, excellent accuracy. Delta Elite uses Colt 23 lbs. recoil spring assembly. Pistol stock except for Pachmayr grip safety and mainspring housing.



Primer burn-through of .40 in 10mm chamber may be attributable to shorter case "headspacing" on extractor hook.



No difficulty inserting trigger finger to fire 1911, even with long trigger----in freezing temps. Superior trigger sensation.





Try as I might, could not effectively inject gloved finger far enough to disengage Glock trigger safety. Impossible to tell in freezing cold whether finger has depressed safety tab. Pull trigger to no avail.



Once finger worms into Glock trigger guard sufficient to depress trigger safety, gun may be fired. Squeeze sensation remains limited. Trigger reset less sure than 1911.



Yonder black spec is 55 gal drum, into which Colt 10mm Auto fired 12x14 .40 S&W from 140 yards.



-Lee
www.singleactions.com
"Building carpal tunnel one round at a time"

[bradshaw]

SHOOTING 10mm AUTO with .40 S&W ammo

An unexpected experiment. We're in a cold snap. Snowshoes now required to check targets and sometimes a shovel to find them. Intended or not, most of the guns I shoot are thoroughly tested in hard freeze. With proper maintenance and appropriate lubrication, guns and ammunition don't much seem to care. Inappropriate lubes include fossil oil, which viscosity thickens dramatically as temps drop. Synthetics flow much colder. Moisture "welds" as it freezes to bone dry steel, causing parts to stick. Bone dry steel parts move relatively freely but do not resist moisture adhesion.

Lubrication is not the point of this piece.

This experiment came about through a supply of ammo interred in very moist storage for a decade. Began with discovery of hundreds of 10mm Auto rounds. Curious to see how much, if any, would fire, I put a Colt Delta Elite in the case. To my surprise the majority of it fired, seemingly with full authority. Aluminum cases corrode easily, eventually disintegrating. Nickel cases are barely affected. Brass corrodes, but at a far slower pace than aluminum. For whatever reason Federal was just about immune to misfire. Among cartridges suffering this abysmal humidity, Remington .40 S&W, including the 180 JHP here reported.

Put a Glock 27 to work shooting the Remington .40 S&W. (Note: for whatever vanity, Glock refuses to stamp a pistol with the name of another maker. For example, Glock drops "S&W from .40, and drops "Sig" from .357 Sig.) Numerous MISFIRES with Rem .40 S&W in the Glock 27. Federal 10mm Auto showing much greater exterior corrosion fired perfectly----excepting one or two misfires out of a couple hundred rounds. the Colt Delta. Occured to me I should try the misfired .40 in the Colt. Providing the extractor held the case, the long protrusion of the 1911 inertia firing pin should nail the primer extra.

All Remington which misfired in the Glock .40 S&W misfired in the Colt 10mm Auto. Whether the Glock deactived any primers it failed to ignite, I don't know. I took a separate box of Rem .40 180 JHP to try in the Colt 10mm. Before attempting to fire .40 in the TEN, I loaded the Colt 10mm magazine with seven rounds of .40 and hand cycled them through the Delta. Slick feeding. Of 25 rounds in the box, I loaded and squeezed 15, taking aim at an 55 gallon drum sticking out of the snow 140 yards distant. Using the hood of my truck as a rest, one shot in 15 misfired. Of fourteen shots fired, 12 punctured the top half of the drum. Ejected cases fell beside the pistol. Other than one misfire, there were no stoppages.

Of 14 shots there were 11 pierced primers. Carbon fowling blackened the firing pin and spring. Finger nail detects very light etching on nose of firing pin, To this must be added numerous primer burn-throughs with corroded aluminum-case CCI Blaser 10mm fired earlier.

PUSH COME to SHOVE, I would not hesitate to load my Delta Elite 10mm with .40 S&W.
David Bradshaw

[Doc Barranti]

Very interesting! I've often wondered if that would work but never tried it with my Delta Elite.

Also very eye opening with the Glock...something Glock users should be aware of!

If a person goes a day without learning something new, they aren't paying attention! Thanks David!

[bradshaw]

Yes, Mike.... when you run low on 10mm, snatch some .40 off the guy next to you!

***

I have long considered the Glock a poor choice to stick in your pants, wanting always to have leather shielding the Glock trigger. This latest accidental experiment doesn't change my mind. I've stuck 1911s and revolvers in my belt and headed out, but have never done that with a Glock. We are locked into a hard cold. Always mindful of whether to rip off glove while reaching for the Iron. For speed. To sustain gun-in-hand in this cold, the glove is on. Once extremities reach immobilizing coldness, it takes warmth and TIME to bring them back. Frozen fingers don't feel. The Problem with the Glock comes in lateral pressure on the trigger as effort is made to insert gloved finger. Bulk of the glove pulls trigger without pulling trigger safety, jamming trigger. Cold fingers don't read this sensation well. So you pull harder, which jams trigger tighter.

SHOOTER of a double action revolver must be aware of glove-interference. If you must keep gun in hand and it is cold, shoot single action. Double action shooting requires air around the trigger finger. A gloved finger may prevent trigger from full RESET. In which case the trigger resets far enough to pick up the double action FLY (DA sear) on the hammer, but not far enough to pick up the hammer tip.
David Bradshaw

[bradshaw]

.40 S&W ACCURACY

Forgot to mention... after successfully shooting .40 S&W in the 10mm, I opened a box of Sellier & Bellot 180 FMJ flat point to put the Glock 27 to work against the oil drum @ 140 yards. Accuracy proved inferior to the Colt Delta. I expect the S&B ammo is inferior to Remington. Perhaps I'll find more Remington to try in the Glock. Consider also, front sight on Glock is .140", whereas Delta sight is .125"; Glock sight radius is shorter. Premature to assert the Colt shoots .40 more accurately then the Glock. If I find more of the Remington .40, I'll try it in the Glock. Meanwhile, from nearly one-and-a-half football fields, the Colt 10mm put 12x14 .40 S&W's into half an oil drum----while functioning flawlessly.

Might be worthwhile to try this experiment with .40 S&W in a Glock 10mm Auto.
David Bradshaw

[lange1]

Thanks for the report. Snow looks deep. I've shot 40s out of a 10mm for a while, and until right now, I've never heard of anyone doing it, I thought I wouldn't mention it. It works out of a Delta and a G20sf. I can't remember a malfunction, and accuracy seems pretty close with the Glock, like you said, only the ejection is lighter.

Now that I'm admitting some things, I've also shot 9mm and 38 super and 9x23 out of a 357 Blackhawk. Without the 9mm cylinder which I don't own. And 38 super out of a 9x23 Colt, and vice versa, through both magazines. Works fine so far.

And I agree that I wouldn't shoot a Glock with a glove, but 1911s I do it all the time.

[bradshaw]

lange1.... thank you for valuable input. Good to hear .40 fires in and cycles the Glock 20 10mm. Do you remember whether the G20 pierced .40 S&W primers? I have a feeling the long, inertial firing pin of the 1911 contributes to burn through of .40 primers. Primers certainly didn't blow out, which excess headspace causes until casehead seats back against breechface as bullet gets underway.

SAAMI might use you to add to its long list of cartridge mischamberings. I have 9mm Largo from one of the wars predating my time: along auto pistol case; not sure as to real bullet or case diameter. My guess a lower pressure round than the 9mm Luger. Also have some .41 Auto, or .41x22mm, something to that affect, a pre-10mm round with rebated rim to take advantage of a 9x19mm slide. Believe its a .410 bullet. Believe Israeli Military Industries and one or two others made ammo. A neighbor with a Model 57 .41 Mag asked if he should buy a .41 barrel to drop in his Browning Hi-Power. "No," I advised, "You already have the real thing."
David Bradshaw

[bradshaw]

lange1.... did a double-take on the rounds you've stuffed through your .357 Blackhawk. While the Blackhawk redefines toughness among .357s, your experience gives new definition to the Blackhawk as a SURVIVAL tool.
David Bradshaw

[lange1]

David,

Wasn't that the .41 Action Express? I recently looked for brass or ammo or dies or anything, seems to have died for real. I think that'd be sweet in a Hi Power. I think it was a .410, and it was in the Speer no. 11 manual if memory serves.

And no, I never saw a pierced primer with a 40 in the G20. And I have run lots of the cheapo white box Winchester 40 through it, but recently bought a Lone Wolf 40 barrel, so I don't really need to do it anymore. I had a bad experience with 45 Colt in a FA 454... couldn't chamber 454 too easily after swaged lead 45s...

And as I recall, I may have even put some 9mm Largo through the 357 Blackhawk, I just can't remember all I put through it, maybe some 380 too, I just don't remember, I think I tried anything that would fit in the chamber.

[bradshaw]

1 January 2018----greetings for Health in the New Year. Looks like a cold front grips most much of the United States. Our day started at 16 to 20 below ZERO. Brilliant, nearly full moon last night, shadowing an infinitely detailed graphic of trees across white white snow. Despite today’s blazing sun, temperature will not rise to zero. Shooting today to include a revolver or two, along with an automatic, or two.

Not a Glock.

One does not barehand a pistol in this weather, leastwise not for more than a few shots. A gloved hand struggles in vain to compress the “safety lever” on a Glock trigger. A gloved finger jams on entering the Glock trigger guard, reporting to a pull on the trigger with the tip of the finger. Short of compressing the safety lever, the gun does not fire. Your golf gloves and pigskin racing gloves won’t make the nut in this weather. Frostbite attacks the uninitiated faster than the initiated.

Any gun worth a hoot and properly maintained works in this weather. Including a Glock. Well, expect stoppages and misfires with some of the smaller autos and .22s. Just bring a screwdriver too stick inside the trigger guard to fire the Glock.
David Bradshaw

[bradshaw]

Trapr.... experience from the world of your competitive marksmanship specifically debases infallibility of the Glock, and or its plastic children. Specifically, that the Glock and guns made in its shadow never fail. What happens when you can’t get the pistol to fire in a gloved hand because the glove jams the so-called “safe” trigger. If you have to shoot a 1911 with gloved hand, it works. If you have to shoot a Glock with gloved hand, it may not fire. That’s a jam before the gun even fires.

Reality in a cold climate. You may or may not have time to remove the glove. Or, you may not have a free hand to remove the glove....
David Bradshaw

[bigbrowndog]

The funny thing David is I’m reminded all the time by newer shooters that real world practicality has no business in IPSC/USPSA competitions,………..I remind them that “Practical” is what the P is for. At which point the discussion typically escalates to name calling by them.

Trapr

[bradshaw]

For John Parker.... another look at the 10mm Auto, and its offspring .40 S&W.
David Bradshaw