S&W Model 69 (L Frame .44 Magnum), 4 ¼” Bbl.
Feb 2, 2014 11:51:15 GMT -5
erich, alukban, and 2 more like this
Post by paul105 on Feb 2, 2014 11:51:15 GMT -5
S&W Model 69 (L Frame .44 Magnum), 4 ¼” Bbl.
Parts of this was previously posted on this site in another thread – sorry for redundancy but didn’t want to leave anything out.
I have one and have been shooting it for the last week or so (weather permitting). It’s great. Have close to 300 rounds downrange, and have covered the spectrum – 240s at 730 fps and 325grs at 1,182 fps (and several in between) – all manageable but POI may be problematic.
Anyway, here are some photos, dimensions, loads, and personal observations. The long/thin barrel shank/forcing cone of the 696 .44 Special is evident in the picture below. By the way, has anyone ever seen, or have personal knowledge of a barrel shank/forcing cone failure in a 696 or 396 – not being argumentative, just curious?
629 Mtn Gun weighs 39 oz
M69 L Frame weighs 37 oz
629 Mtn Gun Cylinder Diameter: 1.70”
M69 L Frame Cylinder Diameter: 1.56”
629 Mtn Gun Cylinder Length: 1.705”
M69 L Frame Cylinder Length: 1.670”
(Note: The M69 cylinder is 1.670 inches and isn't recessed for cartridge rims -- a 1.712" hand load fits, but is right at the face of the cylinder. Lymans No 49 edition shows OAL w their 425421 Keith Bullet is 1.710". A .429 minus plug gauge will enter all throats a .430 plug will not.)
629 Mtn Gun Frame Window - Height: 1.735“
M69 L Frame - Frame Window Height: 1.600“
629 Mtn Gun Frame Window – Width: 1.880“
M69 L Frame - Frame Window Width: 1.820“
629 Mtn Gun Cylinder Wall at Narrowest Point: .095” -- (.0900” between chambers)
M69 L Frame Cylinder Wall at Narrowest Point: .060 “ -- ( .130 “ between chambers)
(629 Cyl Bolt Cuts are over the chamber while M69 bolt cuts are between chambers)
629 Mtn Gun Frame Top Strap – Width: .665“
M69 L Frame - Frame Top Strap Width: .665“
629 Mtn Gun Frame Top Strap – Height: .220“ to top of frame (includes sight mortiss)
M69 L Frame - Frame Top Strap Height: .210“ to top of frame (includes sight mortiss)
629 Mtn Gun Barrel Shank OD: .630“
M69 L Frame - Barrel Shank OD: .620“
629 Mtn Gun Frame Over Barrel OD: .900“
M69 L Frame - Frame Over Barrel OD: .880“
629 Mtn Gun Trigger Reach: 3.10“ (same grips for both 629 & M69)
M69 L Frame - Trigger Reach: 3.00 “
HERE ARE SOME PICTURES:
.
M69 Barrel Shank/Forcing Cone area:
.
.
M696 Barrel Shank/Forcing Cone Area:
.
.
629 Mtn Gun Barrel Shank/Forcing Cone area:
.
.
Family Portrait - 629 Mtn Gun, M696, New M69:
.
.
Sorry about the "so-so" pictures -- light wasn't the best and I'm not the best photographer.
What a neat little package.
FIRST RANGE SESSION:
I was in a hurry, hands were cold, light going fast, and the wind was blowing, so I didn't get to do as much testing as I wanted to. Will get to it soon.
The loads were:
240gr SWC Lasercast (.431)seated to 1.500" OAL and crimped lightly over the front drive band. Multi-x Starline cases and Winchester WLP primers.
5.6gr of HP 38 (Vel: 739 fps)
10.6gr of HS6 (Vel: 1,035 fps)
9.4 gr of Longshot (Vel: 1,078 fps)
265gr SWCGC (429244) (.429) seated deep and crimped over the front drive band. Multi-x Starline cases and WLPs.
16.9gr A2400 (Vel: 1,142 fps)
When seated deep (as was done here), this load will run right at 1,200 fps from a 6" barrel.
Federal Factory 240gr JHP (No. 44A) Vel: 1,217 fps
(We chroned this load at 1,375 fps from a 7 1/2" Bisley Hunter.
.
.
.
.
Couple of observations:
For me, while very comfortable feeling, the grip panels that come with the gun aren't comfortable under heavy recoil (shouldn't be a problem in the field). I'll probably mount some of the S&W 500 Hogues for longer bench sessions to test heavier loads.
Looks like this gun was sighted in at the factory with .44 Special ammo.
The rear sight has some room to move the POI down, but may need a higher front sight.
I was real pleased with the limited test targets.
That Fed Factory load looks to have excellent accuracy potential.
Recoil with the 265gr SWCGC/16.9 A2400 and the 240gr Fed Factory load were the same and would not be abusive with proper fitting (to the individual) grips. We'll see what it's like with some 305s and 325s.
SECOND RANGE SESSION – CHRONOGRAPHING ONLY:
Load Data for REFERENCE ONLY -- NOT A RECOMMENDATION.
Replaced the factory grips with the Hogue 500s (see 629 photo above).
Didn't shoot any groups but ran some loads over the chronograph.
Chrono 5 long paces from muzzle and temp was about 45 deg f., 5 shots except for 240gr Fed Factory, and 325gr WLNGC (both 3 shots):
Bullet make, OAL, cases and primers shown above
240gr, 9.4gr Longshot, ... 1,078 fps avg, 18 fps ES.
240gr, 10.6gr HS6, ....... 1,035 fps avg, 24 fps ES.
265gr, 16.9gr A2400,...... 1,142 fps avg, 37 fps ES.
240gr, Federal Fact, ..... 1,216 fps avg, 12 fps ES
Load Data for REFERENCE ONLY -- NOT A RECOMMENDATION.
300gr WFNPB 1.651" OAL - LBT type - source unknown.
20.0gr H110.
Fed 155 (Mag)
New Top Brass (Scharch.com).
1,102 fps avg, 37 fps ES
310gr RNFPGC DC 1.605" OAL (top crimp grove) - LEE mold.
20.0gr H110.
Fed 155 (Mag)
New Top Brass (Scharch.com).
1,141 fps avg, 23 fps ES
325gr WLNGC 1.711" OAL - Beartooth Bullets.
22.0gr H110.
Fed 155 (Mag)
New Top Brass (Scharch.com).
1,182 fps avg, 13 fps ES (3 shots only)
Load Data for REFERENCE ONLY -- NOT A RECOMMENDATION.
The Hogue 500s worked great making this gun comfortable to shoot with the heavier loads. I have a problem with grips that are hard or narrow at the top (or both) -- recoil just hammers the bone at the base of my thumb -- the Hogue 500s pretty much solve this problem for me.
Didn't shot any targets, so can't comment on POI of the heavier bullets.
The 300s were not bad at all recoil wise, but was noticeable and the 325gr/1,180fps a bit more so. Certainly won’t shoot many of these.
THIRD RANGE SESSION – JUST SHOOTING:
Yesterday, I shot 65 rounds of 5.1gr Win Super Target under the 240gr Lasercast (seated to 1.510 OAL) in Starline cases and lit by Win Large Pistol primers. What a pleasant load – probably running 750 fps or a bit more. Didn’t shoot on paper or chronograph – will do that another day.
FOURTH AND FIFTH RANGE SESSION:
Shot falling plates, large and small poppers, and resetting target tree at 25 to 70 yards, both single and double action. The load was 6.5 gr HP38 under a 240gr Lasercast SWCBB (seated and crimped over front dr band @1.500”) in Starline cases, ignited with a Win Large Pistol primer. Couldn’t have been more enjoyable. Shot five over the back of the truck tonneau at 23 yds and they group under 1.5” with 3 of the 5 touching – operator error I’m sure.
CONCLUSION:
Fitted with the Hogue 500s, FOR ME, it is comfortable to shoot with any and all loads likely to be used. Again, FOR ME, it is the ideal handgun - reasonable weight, portable size, good balance, good accuracy (so far), and sufficient/versatile caliber.
I plan on both shooting and carrying this gun a lot, and won’t baby it. Will find out how well it holds up over time.
Hope this gives a bit better picture of what the new S&W M69 is or might be.
Did I say I really like this gun
FWIW,
Paul
PS if anyone spots what looks like a measuring error, let me know and I’ll remeasure.
Parts of this was previously posted on this site in another thread – sorry for redundancy but didn’t want to leave anything out.
I have one and have been shooting it for the last week or so (weather permitting). It’s great. Have close to 300 rounds downrange, and have covered the spectrum – 240s at 730 fps and 325grs at 1,182 fps (and several in between) – all manageable but POI may be problematic.
Anyway, here are some photos, dimensions, loads, and personal observations. The long/thin barrel shank/forcing cone of the 696 .44 Special is evident in the picture below. By the way, has anyone ever seen, or have personal knowledge of a barrel shank/forcing cone failure in a 696 or 396 – not being argumentative, just curious?
629 Mtn Gun weighs 39 oz
M69 L Frame weighs 37 oz
629 Mtn Gun Cylinder Diameter: 1.70”
M69 L Frame Cylinder Diameter: 1.56”
629 Mtn Gun Cylinder Length: 1.705”
M69 L Frame Cylinder Length: 1.670”
(Note: The M69 cylinder is 1.670 inches and isn't recessed for cartridge rims -- a 1.712" hand load fits, but is right at the face of the cylinder. Lymans No 49 edition shows OAL w their 425421 Keith Bullet is 1.710". A .429 minus plug gauge will enter all throats a .430 plug will not.)
629 Mtn Gun Frame Window - Height: 1.735“
M69 L Frame - Frame Window Height: 1.600“
629 Mtn Gun Frame Window – Width: 1.880“
M69 L Frame - Frame Window Width: 1.820“
629 Mtn Gun Cylinder Wall at Narrowest Point: .095” -- (.0900” between chambers)
M69 L Frame Cylinder Wall at Narrowest Point: .060 “ -- ( .130 “ between chambers)
(629 Cyl Bolt Cuts are over the chamber while M69 bolt cuts are between chambers)
629 Mtn Gun Frame Top Strap – Width: .665“
M69 L Frame - Frame Top Strap Width: .665“
629 Mtn Gun Frame Top Strap – Height: .220“ to top of frame (includes sight mortiss)
M69 L Frame - Frame Top Strap Height: .210“ to top of frame (includes sight mortiss)
629 Mtn Gun Barrel Shank OD: .630“
M69 L Frame - Barrel Shank OD: .620“
629 Mtn Gun Frame Over Barrel OD: .900“
M69 L Frame - Frame Over Barrel OD: .880“
629 Mtn Gun Trigger Reach: 3.10“ (same grips for both 629 & M69)
M69 L Frame - Trigger Reach: 3.00 “
HERE ARE SOME PICTURES:
.
M69 Barrel Shank/Forcing Cone area:
.
.
M696 Barrel Shank/Forcing Cone Area:
.
.
629 Mtn Gun Barrel Shank/Forcing Cone area:
.
.
Family Portrait - 629 Mtn Gun, M696, New M69:
.
.
Sorry about the "so-so" pictures -- light wasn't the best and I'm not the best photographer.
What a neat little package.
FIRST RANGE SESSION:
I was in a hurry, hands were cold, light going fast, and the wind was blowing, so I didn't get to do as much testing as I wanted to. Will get to it soon.
The loads were:
240gr SWC Lasercast (.431)seated to 1.500" OAL and crimped lightly over the front drive band. Multi-x Starline cases and Winchester WLP primers.
5.6gr of HP 38 (Vel: 739 fps)
10.6gr of HS6 (Vel: 1,035 fps)
9.4 gr of Longshot (Vel: 1,078 fps)
265gr SWCGC (429244) (.429) seated deep and crimped over the front drive band. Multi-x Starline cases and WLPs.
16.9gr A2400 (Vel: 1,142 fps)
When seated deep (as was done here), this load will run right at 1,200 fps from a 6" barrel.
Federal Factory 240gr JHP (No. 44A) Vel: 1,217 fps
(We chroned this load at 1,375 fps from a 7 1/2" Bisley Hunter.
.
.
.
.
Couple of observations:
For me, while very comfortable feeling, the grip panels that come with the gun aren't comfortable under heavy recoil (shouldn't be a problem in the field). I'll probably mount some of the S&W 500 Hogues for longer bench sessions to test heavier loads.
Looks like this gun was sighted in at the factory with .44 Special ammo.
The rear sight has some room to move the POI down, but may need a higher front sight.
I was real pleased with the limited test targets.
That Fed Factory load looks to have excellent accuracy potential.
Recoil with the 265gr SWCGC/16.9 A2400 and the 240gr Fed Factory load were the same and would not be abusive with proper fitting (to the individual) grips. We'll see what it's like with some 305s and 325s.
SECOND RANGE SESSION – CHRONOGRAPHING ONLY:
Load Data for REFERENCE ONLY -- NOT A RECOMMENDATION.
Replaced the factory grips with the Hogue 500s (see 629 photo above).
Didn't shoot any groups but ran some loads over the chronograph.
Chrono 5 long paces from muzzle and temp was about 45 deg f., 5 shots except for 240gr Fed Factory, and 325gr WLNGC (both 3 shots):
Bullet make, OAL, cases and primers shown above
240gr, 9.4gr Longshot, ... 1,078 fps avg, 18 fps ES.
240gr, 10.6gr HS6, ....... 1,035 fps avg, 24 fps ES.
265gr, 16.9gr A2400,...... 1,142 fps avg, 37 fps ES.
240gr, Federal Fact, ..... 1,216 fps avg, 12 fps ES
Load Data for REFERENCE ONLY -- NOT A RECOMMENDATION.
300gr WFNPB 1.651" OAL - LBT type - source unknown.
20.0gr H110.
Fed 155 (Mag)
New Top Brass (Scharch.com).
1,102 fps avg, 37 fps ES
310gr RNFPGC DC 1.605" OAL (top crimp grove) - LEE mold.
20.0gr H110.
Fed 155 (Mag)
New Top Brass (Scharch.com).
1,141 fps avg, 23 fps ES
325gr WLNGC 1.711" OAL - Beartooth Bullets.
22.0gr H110.
Fed 155 (Mag)
New Top Brass (Scharch.com).
1,182 fps avg, 13 fps ES (3 shots only)
Load Data for REFERENCE ONLY -- NOT A RECOMMENDATION.
The Hogue 500s worked great making this gun comfortable to shoot with the heavier loads. I have a problem with grips that are hard or narrow at the top (or both) -- recoil just hammers the bone at the base of my thumb -- the Hogue 500s pretty much solve this problem for me.
Didn't shot any targets, so can't comment on POI of the heavier bullets.
The 300s were not bad at all recoil wise, but was noticeable and the 325gr/1,180fps a bit more so. Certainly won’t shoot many of these.
THIRD RANGE SESSION – JUST SHOOTING:
Yesterday, I shot 65 rounds of 5.1gr Win Super Target under the 240gr Lasercast (seated to 1.510 OAL) in Starline cases and lit by Win Large Pistol primers. What a pleasant load – probably running 750 fps or a bit more. Didn’t shoot on paper or chronograph – will do that another day.
FOURTH AND FIFTH RANGE SESSION:
Shot falling plates, large and small poppers, and resetting target tree at 25 to 70 yards, both single and double action. The load was 6.5 gr HP38 under a 240gr Lasercast SWCBB (seated and crimped over front dr band @1.500”) in Starline cases, ignited with a Win Large Pistol primer. Couldn’t have been more enjoyable. Shot five over the back of the truck tonneau at 23 yds and they group under 1.5” with 3 of the 5 touching – operator error I’m sure.
CONCLUSION:
Fitted with the Hogue 500s, FOR ME, it is comfortable to shoot with any and all loads likely to be used. Again, FOR ME, it is the ideal handgun - reasonable weight, portable size, good balance, good accuracy (so far), and sufficient/versatile caliber.
I plan on both shooting and carrying this gun a lot, and won’t baby it. Will find out how well it holds up over time.
Hope this gives a bit better picture of what the new S&W M69 is or might be.
Did I say I really like this gun
FWIW,
Paul
PS if anyone spots what looks like a measuring error, let me know and I’ll remeasure.
