fatcpa
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 26
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Post by fatcpa on Jun 4, 2013 16:53:49 GMT -5
New guy here. I've only been shooting single actions for about three years. I have several revolvers but no customs (yet). I started reloading about two years ago, mostly 38 spl/357, 44 spl/44 mag, 45 ACP and 45 colt. I have old, arthritic wrists so I don't load anything stiffer than 44 mags. My shooting accuracy leaves something to be desired, but I consider the actual shooting to only be a part of the hobby, along with reloading, and, as of about a month ago, bullet casting. I have Lyman moulds for all the revolvers that I shoot. To this point, I have been sizing with Lee dies and using liquid Alox for lube. My question, would I benefit by stepping up to a lubrisizer using heated lube? Does using hard lube give me better performance than the Alox? I don't drive the lead very hard and I probably won't cast in any great volume. It would be unusual for me to push anything much over 1000 fps. I usually go to jacketed bullets for my 357 mag and 44 mag loads. I would appreciate any input or advice. Thanks.
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ericp
.327 Meteor
Posts: 506
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Post by ericp on Jun 4, 2013 18:58:36 GMT -5
Hi! I've used the liquid Alox a bit and didn't really care for the mess associated with it (or the smell), but it always seemed to work just fine. I now use Fryxell Lube for everything but blackpowder shooting. It's just a roughly 50/50 mix of beeswax and Sta-Lube Extreme Pressure Moly-Graph Multi-Purpose Grease melted together in a double boiler. I like it because it simplifies things as it works for everything from 38special loads going 700 fps to gas checked 6.5x55 going 2300 fps. It's also nice because you can tailor how hard the lube is by varying how much grease vs. beeswax is on the mix to point where you don't need to heat it. I really can't give you any quantitative data to say it's "better" for your application but it's what I like. If you're not having any problem with the Liquid Alox it might not be worth the trouble to mess with something else.
Eric
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jwp475
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,084
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Post by jwp475 on Jun 4, 2013 20:26:44 GMT -5
I like and use LBT Blue. Works extremely well, I apply with a lube/sizer by Lyman. I thin
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Post by kaytod on Jun 4, 2013 21:36:52 GMT -5
The tumble lube works well but as stated already, it's a bit messy. I found it ends up in the dies, and in my pockets, then I have lint on my bullet noses and I look like I'm going to shoot a tribble outta my gun.
If you cast a little, shoot mild loads and don't mind a bit of cleanup now and then, the Alox will do you just fine until you get the experimenting bug and have to get more stuff like a lubersizer.
I keep the Liquid alox around still but it is now used on full wadcutter bullets. For the rest I use a lubersizer. If I don't make my own lube, I use White Label lube by Glenn Larson. I use his BAC for most of my pistol stuff and his carnauba red for mag pistol and rifle.
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jsh
.327 Meteor
Posts: 884
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Post by jsh on Jun 8, 2013 23:21:07 GMT -5
It is all about fit. Using cast think of it as shooting a shotgun, you want some choke. At any point in time the bullet leaves that case and any of the places it makes contact gets larger accuracy will suffer. Example as sized and lubed at 359, hits the cylinder at 359 then to barrel throat at 360-61 then to 358 in the groove then 363 at the muzzle. It ain't gonna shoot. Slug up? Some from initial kick in the rear coming out of the case. But once it hits the barrel and gases are going around it your done. Lube If you can cast good to excellent CB's you can make lube. Folks say it is messy or hard to do. It is no harder than casting. It is way cleaner than casting. I make and use FWFL Felix's world famous lube+carnauba using the original recipe. Does it work ? My test platform is a few rifles and pistols with proven cb bullets. One particular 30-06 is pushed to 2900 fps. Handguns are run to max jacketed speeds. Once again it is size. You can take a wrong sized bullet or flawed one and use lbt or spg or any high priced lube and still get crap. You use jacketed in the magnums, why?? Cast will shoot as good as jacketed in a straight walled cartridge. I am by far no expert on the subject. My cast consumption compared to jacketed for several years was around 50-1. Still the only jacketed I shoot are long range hunting cartridges and sub 30 cals that I like to speed up over 2750-2800. I don't own a set yet and ought to be kicked in the head for it. But, anyone loading cb s should own or have at their disposal a set of pin gauges. Especially a revolter. Jeff
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jwp475
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,084
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Post by jwp475 on Jun 9, 2013 5:18:31 GMT -5
I disagree, I size and lube my 45Colt/454 Casull bullet at.454 and let the cylinder leads and barrel swage them down. They are very accurate this way if cast hard enough. I shoot water quenched wheel weights at a brinnel of 22-24. Not a good practice with soft lead IMHO. I also use LBT Blue lube
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COR
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,522
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Post by COR on Jun 9, 2013 7:13:35 GMT -5
Alox and LBT blue soft. That covers all needs.
If you are at or about 1000fps the Alox will do fine even with bullets with traditional lube grooves. I don't mess with making my own lube out of sheer convenience and nothing I can make will approach the quality and ease I get with the blue soft.
My 45/70 use a Ranch Dog mold that only uses Alox and it shoots great. Alox is a great lube and no messier than anything two young boys can throw at me!
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jsh
.327 Meteor
Posts: 884
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Post by jsh on Jun 9, 2013 7:13:59 GMT -5
?? I guess I don't understand the comment. If you are sizing to .454 and it will chamber you should be fine. As long as all the transformations on the way to the end of the barrel stay the same or get smaller in diameter. I was of the impression for a long time that harder was better. My 625 jm just threw me a fit. I messed with it till I was ready to send it down the road or throw $ at it till I fixed it. I finally went to air cooled WW and my accura y and slight leading went away. No other changes. I did check the hardness but it has been long enough I forget what it was. Soft by most standards. I think the hard ones were skidding into the shallow S&W grooves? Turned around on a gp100 and a fickle 19 smith and did the same air cool bullet. The 19 shot better to a point , basically a plinking/be speed which was ok with me. The Ruger did better but had to go larger in size. Then it caused loading issues in two cylinders. The Ruger was a borrowed gun so didn't fix it but made him aware of the issue. One thing on alox a buddy of mine has done for years. Let them set with a fan on them over night. If there still sticky just dust them with a little corn starch. He calls them his gravy bullets. Some folks use mica to acomplish the same thing. FWFL is not really a hard lube and is all natural no petro distillates. It can be used as a bp lube but needs to be a little softer which is easy enough to do. A lot of the commercial cast bullets lube is not much better than crayon. It is just to hard and has a pretty color to sell. They are made to sell if they shoot consider ones self luck anything past a casual load. Another thing is the bevel bad design. Just a bad idea IMHO. Saved a step for some but creates problems down the road on a lot of occasions. Jeff
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jwp475
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,084
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Post by jwp475 on Jun 9, 2013 8:36:23 GMT -5
If the bullet is slightly undersized in the barrel then a softer bullet will be more accurate, but a harder one will be more accurate if the bullet is not undersized in the barrel. My 45 barrels are .451 If the cylinder throats are smaller than the barrel that is a problem for sure
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jsh
.327 Meteor
Posts: 884
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Post by jsh on Jun 9, 2013 8:59:22 GMT -5
Some place I had stashed a pretty lengthy article on shooting cast with no lube just using hardness and size. No fast stuff but the speeds were still above what ever I would have guessed along with good accuracy. What brand of gun are you shooting?? Between FA's S&W Ruger I have found no perfect size as far as a universal fit. The early smiths seem to shoot better for me but that may be from round count slicking everything up. Modern smiths have the barrel torqued down so hard most have a bulge in them. It is an easy enough fix I just don't know why they leave like that. The Rugers I have fooled with in da and sa have been fairly easy to get to run. The FA is a whole different breed of cat. Tolerances are almost to tight. I am not complaining as most FAs will out shoot a lot of rifles. To much crimp and you won't get them to chamber. Front driving band a smidge to big will cause issues. I think if you got a rock to chamber it would shoot it very well though. My friends 44 is a pleasure to shoot. Poor groups with it are about the best you can get with a lot of wheel guns. Jeff
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Post by foxtrapper on Jun 9, 2013 17:23:48 GMT -5
I only cast for my six-guns ( 5shot) and all I use is alox mix. I first used alox alone but had the sticky bullet seater problem. I then tried to add powdered mica to help , but that created even more problems associated with tight cylinder throats. Now I use the 45/45/10 recipe from the cast boolit website. It solved the sticky issue and leaves a nice lube star on the muzzle.
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jsh
.327 Meteor
Posts: 884
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Post by jsh on Jun 10, 2013 6:16:40 GMT -5
You didn't add mica to the alox did you ? Just dust them on them with it if they are a bit tacky. I use very little alox. But when I do I dump them on wax paper and spread them out so that they are not touching. Then put the fan on them over night. Mine are not sticky but I thin the alox with water. Jeff
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Post by foxtrapper on Jun 10, 2013 7:44:02 GMT -5
Mica dusted afterward. I tried using smaller amounts of the alox but still had the stickiness . I place each one upright on wax paper where they don't touch, stii ....... I was hesitant to try the 45/45/10 because of having to cook off the solvent in the Johnson paste wax. Someone posted that if you took the lid off the can the solvent would evaporate after a few days, so no need to cook! Worked like a charm. Since I didn't cook the wax it is still a solid. I measure out the alox 45%, the jaw 45%, odorless mineral spirits 10% into a Tupperware with cover and add one bullet cover and shake. After a minute or so everything is in a liquid state and ready to use.
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jsh
.327 Meteor
Posts: 884
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Post by jsh on Jun 10, 2013 18:27:22 GMT -5
Interesting. Can you post a link or give me a recipe. Jeff
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Post by foxtrapper on Jun 11, 2013 7:17:12 GMT -5
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