Vintage versus modern

[Gary @ R&G]

I sort of hi-jacked Nolongcolts 1895 thread. No disrespect intended. I thought I would start my own thread on vintage versus modern production. I prefer the original guns. The fit, finish of the steel and wood down to the look of the lettering. The feel of a time honed lever action down to the smell that 100 years of use has imparted to them make it an easy choice for me. I have been able to acquire a few 95’s and 86’s at around the same price as new production guns. Saved search on GB is a useful feature. But more than anything else the nostalgic aspects of hunting with a 100+ year old gun appeals to me.

Take this 1886 made in 1914 but not shipped until 9-12-1916. Shipped 2 days before the WWI battle of the Somme. Who walked into Marshall Wells Hardware company in Duluth Minn. and said “I will take that one”. How much game did it take in the subsequent 96 years before traveling to Arizona then to Tuttle Oklahoma to hang on my book shelf rack.







Or this 30-40 1895 that shipped 8-1-1903. The same day Calamity Jane died after years of alcohol abuse in South Dakota. Where did it pick up the fancy wood, Kings reflector front sight and climbing Lyman. How did it end up in Los Angeles where I purchased on AA from Martin Retting a couple years ago. What or who does SVG stand for that is monogram engraved on the steel butt.

[Lee Martin]

I agree Gary. My dad is a long-time Winchester collector and those old rifles were something special. I was handling one of his takedown 1886's in 33 Winchester a while back and talk about smooth.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
"Building carpal tunnel one round at a time"

[Gary @ R&G]

Our first large frame Winchester was this takedown 33 wcf 1886 made in about 1899. Unfortunately 33 wcf didnt come out until about 1902 and it letters as a 40-82. Price was right and my partner hunts with it. The 33 is no slouch and I wouldnt be afraid to hunt most NA game with it..

[nolongcolt]

I agree also and my dad has always been a big fan of lever guns of all makes, especially the .348 and .33 Win., but also Marlins, the .38-55, .375 Win., .444 Marlin etc. right on down to the .32-20's. The biggest problem is affordability which is why the replicas make sense at all, and of course they are of good quality and modern built.

[Gary @ R&G]

We love Marlins as well as Winchesters. My partner even has a couple Savages. The early 30 below and a 1926 takedown 300. I guess I am just a lucky shopper. I have been able to buy most vintage guns at around the same price as their modern equivalent. The 71's are out of sight, the 86's of antique mfg are high. The Marlin and Winchester small frame guns in 38 & 44 always seem higher than the 25 & 32. I prefer guns with special features such as button mags and vintage tang or receiver sights. love Lyman 21 & 38's. I bought the 1885 32wcf (shipped in 1892) with a newer receiver sight. When it arrived it had a single set. Everything lettered but the receiver sight. I think the receiver sight turned the other bidders off. The highest priced one of these was under $800.

1901 Savage 99 30
Marlin 1889 38wcf
Marlin 1889 32 wcf (one of a couple hundred with 32" bbl and non musket)
1885 32wcf single set.

[nolongcolt]

One of my most regretful gun moments is when I sold (to pay bills), an early 99 Savage takedown in .303 Savage, that my great uncle had given me. I never much cared for any Savage rifle but sure wish I had that one back.

[CraigC]

The old rifles are wonderful and have an appeal all their own. However, there aren't enough for all of us and they tend to trade at elevated collector prices, like everything else these days. Like this 111yr old 1894. Although I will add that it was only affordable and added to my collection because it had been cut to 20" and drilled & tapped for a receiver sight.



Sometimes you want an old design but a new rifle. Contemporary Winchesters and Marlins are good guns. Uberti and Miroku builds them better. I have never seen an affordable 1873 in the condition I wanted at a price I wanted to pay. Uberti builds a very good replica and I'm not afraid to shoot the piss out of it. When it comes time to get an 1866, it'll definitely be a Cimarron and not an original.



Nor do I have to worry about the metallurgy in my late model 1895, that shoots better than no antique ever could.



What burns my ass is folks like some of the purists on Leverguns.com who can't even have a civil conversation about later model leverguns without insulting them and their owners. That forum had really deteriorated last time I visited.

[Lee Martin]

I'm with you Craig. For example, my dad has quite a few Model 71's. We've shot them all, but my Browning 71 sees even more range time. It may not have the "character" appeal of the originals but it's a strong shooter. And like the Winchesters I expect it'll last for decades to come.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
"Building carpal tunnel one round at a time"

[brionic]

Neat guns, Gary.

Dan and Ellen Retting are family friends, behind the Golden Curtain.

[Gary @ R&G]

I have bought several from the Retting shop. Great people to deal with.

I am certainly not a purist and have had several of the new production guns. I dont care for the tang safety models but we made a plug for one of my partners Japanese 1886's. I even have scopes on 2 of my Marlins which is sacrilege to some. One of my Marlins is a model 57 Levermatic which is about as impure as it gets for a lever. Love it.

I have bought many with issue's. Shortened barrels, recoil pads. Some can be put back some not. My 35 wcf 1895 had a butchered shoooort stock that the seller advertised as loose. It was loose because the lower tang was stripped. I had a spare stock so I drilled and tapped the lower tang hole 1/4 20. Put a 1/4 20 set screw in it then migged it in from the top. Redrilled and tapped it back to the Winchester factory thread. A little cold blue and good as new. Well almost.

[nolongcolt]

I scoped my Marlin MR .450, the 22" bbl model and man does it ever shoot! Under an inch at 100 yds. I figure if it left the factory d&t'd, I'll scope it.
Absolutely drives me around the bend to see a beautiful gun on GB or wherever only to find that some hamhock has drilled the side of the action for a side mount scope!! Especially when there is 3-4 unused scope base holes on the top of the receiver!!! AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!!

[derekr]

Several years ago I dropped by a local gun store that specializes in ARs. On the used rack was an old 1894 with a six-digit serial number. I asked about it and they told me they wouldn't take less than $350. I about dislocated my shoulder going for my wallet! It is in .32 Winchester Special and is in carbine configuration with a smooth shotgun buttplate. It has a Lyman 21 sight also

The Lyman 21 is obviously added many years ago. You can see where the saddle ring was and the bluing under the Lyman sight is like new.

The serial number dates it to 1904-1906 depending on who you believe. Getting a Winchester letter from Cody is on my to-do list.

[lightningii]

Sept 18, 2012 16:20:07 GMT -5 CraigC said:

The old rifles are wonderful and have an appeal all their own. However, there aren't enough for all of us and they tend to trade at elevated collector prices, like everything else these days. Like this 111yr old 1894. Although I will add that it was only affordable and added to my collection because it had been cut to 20" and drilled & tapped for a receiver sight.



Sometimes you want an old design but a new rifle. Contemporary Winchesters and Marlins are good guns. Uberti and Miroku builds them better. I have never seen an affordable 1873 in the condition I wanted at a price I wanted to pay. Uberti builds a very good replica and I'm not afraid to shoot the piss out of it. When it comes time to get an 1866, it'll definitely be a Cimarron and not an original.



Nor do I have to worry about the metallurgy in my late model 1895, that shoots better than no antique ever could.



What burns my ass is folks like some of the purists on Leverguns.com who can't even have a civil conversation about later model leverguns without insulting them and their owners. That forum had really deteriorated last time I visited.

I also think it's kind of a shame to take a really nice, original gun out and weather it up; like you, I don't have the kind of cash to drop on something and then begin removing value. The repro guns have much more reliable metallurgy, and are every bit as fun and interesting as their original ancestors.
There are snotty people in every hobby, whether it's shooting sporting clays or German Shepherds. I choose to ignore them.

[wickerbill]

I like both of them. This 86 letters as a 40-82, but was sent back to Winchester to be refreshed. It was rebored to 45 and is now chambered in 45-70 and shoot great.

Here are a couple of shots of a J.M. Marlin Ballard #2 made between 1875 and 1881 in 32 long. The rifle had the reversable firing pin, so it would shoot both RF and CF roulds. Unfortunately, when I got it, the inside of the barrel looked like the last 10 miles of the road to hell. I had it lined and rechambered to 32-20.


Here is a 1892 in 38-40 that has the smoothest action of any levergun I have ever handled. Shoots prety good too.

Here is a Stevens 44 in 25-20 Single Shot.

But I have and like the newer stuff too. Here is a Pedrasoli Sharps in 45-70.

And a Uberti 73 in 45 Colt.

Then there is the simi older stuff(20's, 30's and 40's). Here is my granddads Rem. mod 241. Serial number under 5000. It shoots as good now as it did when new.

Here is a pre-A model 52 Win. I wish I still had this one.

Heck guys, I'd be lieing if I said I didn't love em all.
Bill

[paulg]

Dang nice Bill! Heck, theyre all slobber sufficient! To me, nothing beats wood and steel.