caryc
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,055
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Post by caryc on Mar 21, 2011 10:49:45 GMT -5
The most significant point I was trying to make is that Corian is not as strong as Micarta. About kids dropping knives and forks and wine bottles on it... counter top Corian is 1/2" thick. It's a big flat surface distributing weight evenly. When you make a gun grip out of it the edges are thinned down and holes are put in it, so there goes that strength factor.
Anyone who has ever worked with both knows that Corian is much easier and faster to work and polish. I've made grips from both materials and in no way would I say they are the same stuff. Actual paper based "Ivory Micarta" (if you can find it) is three, maybe four times the price of paper based black Micarta. You can buy plenty of scrap Corian on Ebay. You won't find any Ivory Micarta.
I'm not saying your Corian gun grips are going to break. I hope the ones I've made don't break. I just wanted to clear the air for those that think Corian and Micarta are the same thing.
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Post by bigbores on Mar 21, 2011 11:48:08 GMT -5
Corian my not be as strong as Micarta but I would bet it is stronger then most woods, seems to make nice knife handles as well.  |
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caryc
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,055
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Post by caryc on Mar 21, 2011 12:14:50 GMT -5
Corian my not be as strong as Micarta but I would bet it is stronger then most woods, seems to make nice knife handles as well. I would not say that either. Wood has a grain in it. As long as that grain is running correctly (vertically) in the grip I would bet the Corian grip would break easier than the hardwood grip if you did the break test over a table edge as I mentioned above. Corian has no "grain" in it to strengthen it. Obviously some people are not going to accept this but I'm willing to bet those people have not actually worked with Corian. |
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Post by bigbores on Mar 21, 2011 13:51:54 GMT -5
Corian my not be as strong as Micarta but I would bet it is stronger then most woods, seems to make nice knife handles as well. I would not say that either. Wood has a grain in it. As long as that grain is running correctly (vertically) in the grip I would bet the Corian grip would break easier than the hardwood grip if you did the break test over a table edge as I mentioned above. Corian has no "grain" in it to strengthen it. Obviously some people are not going to accept this but I'm willing to bet those people have not actually worked with Corian. Agreed, wood is very strong against the grain and very weak running with it, just ask anyone with a black belt (how do you say scam to sell belts) but even at your website the grain doesn't always run "correctly (vertically)", care to try your brake test on this blank after its a finished grip?  |
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Shakey
.327 Meteor
Central Arkansas
Posts: 548
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Post by Shakey on Mar 22, 2011 1:56:22 GMT -5
It seems that people are having a hard time accepting Cary's assessment of Corian and I just want to throw in my two cents worth as someone who has worked with the stuff as it was intended ...paneling a bathroom. It worked great but I managed to chip the corners off a few pieces because the stuff is brittle.
I started to make a set of stocks with some leftover scraps but, seeing how it wanted to chip while roughing them out, I realized that it would be pure luck if I got them completed without chipping a piece off somewhere (I am not an experienced stock maker and don't really have the proper tools). I was particularly concerned about the corner where the locater pin is (I went with Holly instead).
I do believe that you can get good service from Corian if it is well fitted and fully supported. I also believe that a sharp blow on a thin edge or corner that would put a dent in walnut may very well take a chip out of Corian. So, be careful.
The stuff is not fragile but it is brittle, treat it accordingly and it should be fine.
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caryc
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,055
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Post by caryc on Mar 22, 2011 11:03:58 GMT -5
I would not say that either. Wood has a grain in it. As long as that grain is running correctly (vertically) in the grip I would bet the Corian grip would break easier than the hardwood grip if you did the break test over a table edge as I mentioned above. Corian has no "grain" in it to strengthen it. Obviously some people are not going to accept this but I'm willing to bet those people have not actually worked with Corian. Agreed, wood is very strong against the grain and very weak running with it, just ask anyone with a black belt (how do you say scam to sell belts) but even at your website the grain doesn't always run "correctly (vertically)", care to try your brake test on this blank after its a finished grip? What you are looking at in that set of blanks is crotch wood. The true grain and strength of the wood is still running vertically in the wood. If you look in the lower inside corners of those blanks, you can make out some feint lines running vertically in the wood. This is a feint feather patterning. It actually shows the true grain orientation in the wood. The only wood I have ever used with the grain running horizontally is some spalted Karelian Birch. I only did this because I was sending the wood in to be stabilized. After cutting my regular blanks out of it, what was left over was still very pretty stuff. Since I was getting it stabilized anyway, I thought I'd give it a try. I think I made about four pairs of grips from that stuff and have never heard of them breaking. But I have never used any wood with the grain running horizontally since. Any other complaints you have about my stuff? You seem to have gone looking for some. I didn't enter this thread to pick on anyone's product, as I said I have made Corian grips myself. I entered the thread when it was suggested that Corian and Micarta were basically the same product. That is simply not true in any way shape or form and that's what I tried to get across. Shakey's post above made a good point. Why don't you buy yourself some Micarta and some Corian about the same size and smack each piece with a hammer and see what happens? |
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Post by AxeHandle on Mar 22, 2011 12:41:47 GMT -5
FWIW I have more copies of Cary's stuff than anyone I know... No complaints here.  On second thought... I do have one complaint. He doesn't make grips for FAs, TLAs, Colts, BFRs, etc....  |
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Post by bigbores on Mar 22, 2011 12:50:40 GMT -5
caryc,
I wasn't trying complain about your grips, I've never heard anything but great reviews on your grips.
You jumped in on this thread after we had all come to the conclusion that Reeder was using corian and calling it Micarta, we also had posted that he HAD NEVER HAD ANY OF THOSE GRIPS BRAKE and that everyone I know loves the look, fit, and fill.
Your brake test along with you wording of corian being made for counter tops needing to be 1/2" thick made it sound like an attack on corian grips which I have 2 sets, one of which is on a .500Linebaugh that hasn't been so much as scratched least so far.
On a side not corian isn't just used for counter tops its used on guitars for making nuts and bridge saddles for the strings and some drum bodys are made from it, guest nobody warned them about the 1/2" rule.
Your the wood worker so I will take your word on that being crotch wood, but next to the picture you were calling it
"#CW24 Price $165.00 Claro Walnut ".
Isn't "crotch wood" more a description of the part of the tree used and not really the type of wood used?
Seems like a fair question after your corian/micarta "facts" post.
Those faint lines look like tooling marks from the saw to me but again your the wood worker so I will take you word on that.
I was thinking about sending you a blackhawk frame for some grips whats your turnaround time?
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caryc
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,055
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Post by caryc on Mar 22, 2011 13:25:09 GMT -5
caryc, Your brake test along with you wording of corian being made for counter tops needing to be 1/2" thick made it sound like an attack on corian grips which I have 2 sets, one of which is on a .500Linebaugh that hasn't been so much as scratched least so far.
I was not attacking Corian. You seem to keep overlooking that fact that I've made Corian grips myself. I will make Corian grips if a customer wants them but I don't make them for stock off the shelf sales. I simply don't trust them well enough. That is exactly what I will tell any potential customer that calls me.
Your the wood worker so I will take your word on that being crotch wood, but next to the picture you were calling it
"#CW24 Price $165.00 Claro Walnut ".
Isn't "crotch wood" more a description of the part of the tree used and not really the type of wood used?
Seems like a fair question after your corian/micarta "facts" post.
Those faint lines look like tooling marks from the saw to me but again your the wood worker so I will take you word on that.
Those blanks are Claro Walnut. The crotch wood comes from the area just below where a trunk splits and has the best grain and patterns in it. It is also harder and stronger than the regular wood anywhere else in the tree. It has to be stronger to resist wind damage since the tree is reducing it's trunk diameter there. I did not say anything against Reeder's grips in this thread. I only entered the thread when it was suggested that he said Corian and Micarta were basically the same material. This is just not true in any way shape or form. How is that bashing Reeder? I have still not heard Reeder himself say that they were the same product. You obviously went onto my site and posted a picture of my stuff trying to prove me a liar and made this rather snarkey comment. "but even at your website the grain doesn't always run "correctly (vertically)", care to try your brake test on this blank after its a finished grip?"I did not bash anyone's work. I simply tried to explain that Corian and Micarta are two different products. If you don't want to believe me, that's fine. |
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Post by AxeHandle on Mar 22, 2011 13:35:33 GMT -5
Hey Cary! I hear that the SBH grips are a pretty good fit for the BFRs. If I sent you a BFR frame but called it a SBH frame do you think you could make some grips for it? ;D
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Post by bigbores on Mar 22, 2011 14:04:41 GMT -5
Trying to prove you a liar, no.
I was trying to point out your brake test is unfair at best.
Your the one telling us about the grain in wood grips needing to run correctly (vertically) I just found one of your blanks that looked like it was not running correctly (vertically) and I would still bet it would brake along those dark growth rings in your brake test.
You never did give me a turnaround time on your grips?
Also what is the difference in cost (your grips) for finished corian vs micarta grips?
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caryc
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,055
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Post by caryc on Mar 22, 2011 14:14:13 GMT -5
Trying to prove you a liar, no. I was trying to point out your brake test is unfair at best. Your the one telling us about the grain in wood grips needing to run correctly (vertically) I just found one of your blanks that looked like it was not running correctly (vertically) and I would still bet it would brake along those dark growth rings in your brake test. You never did give me a turnaround time on your grips? Also what is the difference in cost (your grips) for finished corian vs micarta grips? I don't think you want to purchase anything from me since I obviously don't know anything about grain and strength in wood. I suggest you contact Reeder for your grip needs. |
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Post by Mountaineer on Mar 22, 2011 15:24:38 GMT -5
Not to belabor a well disputed point, but I have to agree with caryc: Corian and Micarta are two entirely different materials. I have no idea as to the comparable strength of one vs. the other, and irrespective of that, they both have obvious merit as a grip material. But they're not the same stuff. Really. And it doesn't make a bit of difference that they are. It's just a matter of what you prefer.
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Post by Mark Terry on Mar 22, 2011 15:38:15 GMT -5
Relax guys.
Corian is an alumina trihydrate filled acrylic polymer. It's largely thermoplastic (softens or melts on heating and is easily thermoformed). The alumina is responsible for it's fire rating and density. It's not designed for rigorous dynamic properties. There are other acrylic polymer forms with other or no fillers (the alumina acts as a filler and while it adds some specific properties, also affects the strength). There are a wide variety of these sorts of polymers in commerce. We're all familiar with Corian because Dupont did a great job selling it to our wives.
Micarta, on the other hand, is a reinforced thermoset resin (read: epoxy / phenolic, etc.). The paper, linen, fiberglas, carbon fiber are reinforcement. Heating micarta long and hot enough will generally lead to some decomposition but it's not easily thermoformed.
Polyester is another man made material that's been used for counter tops and it's what your "fiberglass" boat is made out of (it's the "gel-coat"). Fiberglass boats are mostly polyester resin reinforced by fiberglas. "Bondo" is also polyester (with a filler).
Probably way too much information.
It's truly hard to beat dense burly walnut, ivory, or (insert your favorite here).
Me, I got to get some of that green monkey lip material.
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Post by bigbores on Mar 22, 2011 15:49:03 GMT -5
;D ;D ;D
smiling the whole time!
"got to get some of that green monkey lip material."
2dogs has a way with words!
"It's truly hard to beat dense burly walnut" and caryc has some of the nicest Ive seen.
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