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Post by pacecars on Jul 15, 2024 16:51:32 GMT -5
OK, I couldn’t resist. I was thumbing through Bobby Tyler’s sight when I came across a new Ruger/Marlin 336 SBL in .30-30 and told him I wanted it. I was going to go with the Rossi R95 but American nostalgia won out. I have the Burris scout scope to put on it and I plan to shoot it a little bit and if I like the whole idea I will send it to The Arms Room for the takedown conversion because I can’t get it out of my head. I think Mr Bradshaw called it an “obsession” and I believe he is right! I am kinda OCD that way with guns. It has cost me a lot of money!
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bamagreg
.327 Meteor
Woodstock, GA
Posts: 945
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Post by bamagreg on Jul 19, 2024 7:30:49 GMT -5
OK, I couldn’t resist. I was thumbing through Bobby Tyler’s sight when I came across a new Ruger/Marlin 336 SBL in .30-30 and told him I wanted it. I was going to go with the Rossi R95 but American nostalgia won out. I have the Burris scout scope to put on it and I plan to shoot it a little bit and if I like the whole idea I will send it to The Arms Room for the takedown conversion because I can’t get it out of my head. I think Mr Bradshaw called it an “obsession” and I believe he is right! I am kinda OCD that way with guns. It has cost me a lot of money! I think it has cost us all a lot of money! (probably no more than my buddies that are afflicted with the golf obsession) |
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Post by bigbrowndog on Jul 19, 2024 8:59:45 GMT -5
Some folks struggle with a Scout configured gun and some do not. It is very much a personal thing, no so much universal as Mr. cooper would have us to think. I have tried a Scout set up and currently have a Marlin Texan set up this way with no issues. Do not rule out a small red dot in place of the magnified optic if the magnified one doesn’t suit your taste or adaptations. Also try a mini or compact normal optic before paying money for the gun and then deciding the concept doesn’t work for you. My lever actions are some of my most used guns and they each have their own personality, some wear a red dot, some irons, and some a scout type optic, one even wears a normal magnified optic with slightly longer eye relief mounted only slightly forward in a “Scoutish” configuration.
Trapr
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Post by pacecars on Jul 19, 2024 9:29:49 GMT -5
Some folks struggle with a Scout configured gun and some do not. It is very much a personal thing, no so much universal as Mr. cooper would have us to think. I have tried a Scout set up and currently have a Marlin Texan set up this way with no issues. Do not rule out a small red dot in place of the magnified optic if the magnified one doesn’t suit your taste or adaptations. Also try a mini or compact normal optic before paying money for the gun and then deciding the concept doesn’t work for you. My lever actions are some of my most used guns and they each have their own personality, some wear a red dot, some irons, and some a scout type optic, one even wears a normal magnified optic with slightly longer eye relief mounted only slightly forward in a “Scoutish” configuration. Trapr Thanks Trapr, all good advice. I have tried the concept on a couple of bolt guns and I am good with it. I am going to go with Warne QD rings which I have had great success with returning to zero. I have been thinking that I could also mount a Leupold 3x (if I can find one) or their 1.5-5x variable scope on it with the same QD rings. That will allow me to switch scopes for the task at hand. |
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Post by bradshaw on Jul 19, 2024 9:48:37 GMT -5
Origin of the “Scout scope, a concept, as Jeff Cooper pronounced it, may have originated with Leupold’s work to place a scout over the bore on the top ejecting Winchester Model 1894. Leupold called its innovation IER----Intermediate Eye Relief. When Ben “Bear Man” Kilham chopped my Remington Model Six pump .308 from 22 to 16.8”, he also milled a Redfield base to fit the barrel, for mounting the Leupold Vari-X 2x II IER with Duplex reticle. The arrangement freed up the receiver for a Williams Guide peep sight (for use with a Burris Sourdough gold post up front).
Had not Marlin enclosed the M-336 receiver, correct placement of a magnified optic wouldn’t have be possible, limiting sighting options to that of the ’94 Winchester. As optics came on after WW II----slowly at first----the Marlin design passed the Winchester in popularity. Although, a great many Marlins still sport open or aperture sights.
As for dry firing the Marlin or Winchester lever action, by all means use snap caps. My old shooting partner Ed Verge and I looked over a fair sampling of these lever actions. Not sure any Winchesters were brought to Verge to replace the firing pin, but a trickle of Marlins came in with broken firing pins. On the Winchester 94, dry firing can peen the breech face forward. Didn’t see that on the Marlin.
As Trapr alludes, the Scout concept works best with UNITY MAGNIFICATION----1x, no magnification. Magnifivcation nullifies the speed advantage of a Scout scope, especially on moving targets, and shooting very low light.
David Bradshaw
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rgp
.30 Stingray
Posts: 245
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Post by rgp on Jul 19, 2024 10:29:40 GMT -5
Not certain that Cooper is the one who came up with the concept, I seem to recall seeing photos of WW2 German issued K98 sniper rifles fitted with a forward mounted scope.
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Post by bigbrowndog on Jul 19, 2024 10:45:02 GMT -5
Not certain that Cooper is the one who came up with the concept, I seem to recall seeing photos of WW2 German issued K98 sniper rifles fitted with a forward mounted scope. Didn’t originate the concept but promoted and advocated it in modern times |
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Post by ldmay375 on Jul 19, 2024 11:46:22 GMT -5
I really like the Marlins for magnified optics use.
The forward mount scopes are not my cup of tea. But, I do like the forward mounted reflex types on the 1892 type lever guns. The only negative I have with the reflex type sights, is astigmatism / cataract.
The lowest setting red dot that I have found for the drooping stock lever guns, is the Williams Gun Sight's Reverse Reflex Sight. I have recently put a Williams on a forward mount 92 type and a Marlin 1895.
I am not a big fan of the Big loops levers. I replaced the one on my 1895 Trapper with a medium loop.
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Post by squawberryman on Jul 21, 2024 6:01:09 GMT -5
How genius is that Williams' sight? My goodness, and it's not an arm and a leg.
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Post by bigbrowndog on Jul 21, 2024 9:19:11 GMT -5
Flipping small reflex sights upside down is nothing new. Mounts enabling this option are available , primarily on competitive pistols. Williams version simply allows the masses to do so on other guns more readily. Looking at it, I do not care for the extra bulk required for flipping, holding, and elevating the sight. Some of the well respected reflex makers are offering smaller more compact models that lower sight axis. Those would be more to my consideration, personally.
Trapr
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Post by 45MAN on Jul 21, 2024 10:33:59 GMT -5
MY SCOUT SCOPE EXPERIENCE IS LIMITED TO A STEYR SCOUT 376 (A MARVELOUS RIFLE TO BE SURE). A SCOUT SCOPE HAS ALL OF THE DISADVANTAGES OF A HANDGUN SCOPE, e.g. LIMITED FOV, LIGHT GATHERING ISSUES IN LOW LIGHT, AND LIMITED MAGNIFICATION OPTIONS, AND FEW, IF ANY, ADVANTAGES OF A RIFLE SCOPE. WITH A SCOUT SCOPE RUNNING SHOTS ARE OUT OF THE QUESTION AND EVEN A WALKING ANIMAL WILL DISAPPEAR FROM YOUR FOV PDQ. AFTER UNSUCCESSFULLY CHASING NILGAI WITH MY SCOUT STEYR I DID NOT CARE FOR THE SCOUT CONCEPT AND WENT TO A CONVENTIONAL RIFLE SCOPE. SOME GUYS MAY BE ABLE TO HANDLE A MAGNIFIED SCOUT SCOPE BETTER THAN ME SO I AM JUST REPORTING MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.
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Post by bradshaw on Jul 22, 2024 10:34:15 GMT -5
Conventional 4” eye relief scope
Advantage
* Wide FoV (Field of View).
* Best low light visibility (better than naked eye).
* Magnification.
* Good target tracking at low magnification.
Disadvantage
* Inferior to iron sights on moving target.
Scout Intermediate Eye Relief
Advantage
* Fast.
* Easy binocular sighting.
Disadvantage
* Poor low light visibility.
* Magnification limited to 2x.
Red dot
Advantage
* Fastest reticle.
* Eye instantly magnetizes to reticle. (Of conventional mechanical reticles, German #4 also throws eye to center.)
* Unity magnification----1x----fastest.
* Unlimited eye relief, flexible mounting.
* Excellent tracking on moving target.
Disadvantage
* Unless tritium reticle, battery dependent.
* Unsuited to magnification.
* None of the light-enhancing effect of magnification.
* Electric reticle contracts iris in low light, opposite needed visibility.
David Bradshaw
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Post by foxtrapper on Jul 22, 2024 13:16:50 GMT -5
Had a Marlin 1894p set up with a burris scout scope. Williams peep , xs front. Great little pkg! Too bad my daughter took a liking to the 44 mag lol and has taken boar and bison with it! She does let me shoot it though!
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Post by ldmay375 on Jul 22, 2024 13:43:36 GMT -5
David pretty well sums it up.
There definitely are no free rides.
The peep / aperture sights with the right front and aperture size, still work pretty good for me at close ranges, with decent light.
On carbines, I prefer the larger window red dots over the micro's. I really like the Trijicon MRO 2 MOA dot on rifles that it allows a decent cheek weld. One Micro type that I want to look closer at is the Aimpoint P2. Though it am not sure of centerline height with the rail mount. The mount is definitely a plus for me with the Williams.
Different strokes for different folks.
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Post by pacecars on Oct 3, 2024 10:05:24 GMT -5
Rifle should arrive at my dealer tomorrow! In the mean time I came across a Burris 2x7 Compact scope that I am also going to mount with the Warne QD lever mounts and sight both scopes in. I will mark their placement on the rail. Should be a versatile setup
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