Freedom Arms 97 .45 Colt Loading Question

[wyomingnimrod]

Howdy Gentlemen, I have a question that likely has been covered before but I can’t find what I’m after yet. Regarding the FA 97 .45 Colt, does anyone have any advice on how to load it “up to its potential”? And by that what I mean is a fairly heavy for caliber hardcast flat nose projectile going at a fairly high velocity with safe pressures while adhering to the COAL of 1.6” or less. Thank you thank you thank you.
I’ve been carrying and practicing with SagebrushMackay’s excellent 270gr SWC 900fps load and I love it and will continue to do so. But I meed to start loading this thing like the 5-shot it is too for the hell of it.

[Fowler]

I don’t own a 97 but I know a lot of guys have found they just crimp there Kieth style bullets over the front shoulder instead of in the crimp groove.

My understanding is that they will handle the Ruger only loads with ease however if bullets need deep seating then you need to back off your charges and work up to your desired velo in the Ruger only power level. The 270-SAS is an excellent bullet in that gun but again needs to be deep seated.

Assuming you still want to shoot the little booger at that power level where the recoil will get quite rude due to the small size and lightweight nature of the gun. This is often the limiting factor for many guys.

Marvelous guns

[wyomingnimrod]

Thank you Fowler. Much appreciated, sir.

[potatojudge]

Another way to ask the question is what bullet has a crimp groove that best allows for full use of the cylinder length.

From there, add H110 to the base of the bullet.

I don't know the answer to that, but this is the place to find out.

[foxtrapper]

You’ll get to dislike shooting top end loads in the 97. Don’t know what barrel length you have but the 4 1/4” will bite like a rattler! Ps this is in 41 mag

[45MAN]

THE MODEL 97 45 COLT MAY BE A 5 SHOT BUT IT IS A MID-FRAME. I RECENTLY ACQUIRED A 7.5" MODEL 97 45 COLT AND GET 1,400fps WITH A RUGER ONLY 250gr RNFP BULLET, NOT A TOP END RUGER LOAD BUT UPPER MID-LEVEL MAYBE. I HAVE NO PLANS ON TRYING TO GO WITH 300gr LOADS BUT AM WAITING FOR SOME 270gr BULLETS FROM RANDY BARNETT.

[bradshaw]

May 27, 2024 22:03:31 GMT -5 wyomingnimrod said:

Howdy Gentlemen, I have a question that likely has been covered before but I can’t find what I’m after yet. Regarding the FA 97 .45 Colt, does anyone have any advice on how to load it “up to its potential”? And by that what I mean is a fairly heavy for caliber hardcast flat nose projectile going at a fairly high velocity with safe pressures while adhering to the COAL of 1.6” or less. Thank you thank you thank you.
I’ve been carrying and practicing with SagebrushMackay’s excellent 270gr SWC 900fps load and I love it and will continue to do so. But I meed to start loading this thing like the 5-shot it is too for the hell of it.

*****

wyomingnimrod.... obvious the Freedom Arms Model 97 enjoys an ardent following. This shooter not among them, the M97 grip is a runaway train in my hand, so let me explain why to me it presents the wrong trail for howitzer level .45 Colt. The five-shot bolt pattern doesn’t make up for its use of----correct me if I’m wrong----Dick Casull’s 1:24”, which Dick selected for hiked velocity in his .454 Casull. The M97 grip ranks among the worst for my hand, a situation which power can only aggravate. Seems an act of vanity to not adopt Bill Ruger’s great passive safety transfer bar system introduced in 1973, one hundred years after introduction of the 1873 Colt Single Action Army and, covering that century, the only single action mechanism I trust to carry loaded all-up, hammer down on a loaded chamber. (Extreme simplicity is a hallmark of the 1873 Colt; I can think of no plainer way than Ruger’s New Model lockwork to level the playing field with Colt and Smith & Wesson’s evolved passive safeties.)

Careful handloading----always with the target in mind----should tell you when to back off. And, a call the Freedom Arms ain’t a bad idea.
David Bradshaw

[Encore64]

I've got two of the 97s in 45 Colt. Both wear 5 1/2" Barrels.

The second addition, bought from a friend, has an auxiliary cylinder in 45 ACP that has been Counterbored to accept the 45 Auto Rim.

Accuracy is outstanding as expected with Freedom Arms Guns.

I've shot bullet weights ranging from 215-260 grn with above average accuracy.

The 5-Shot FA97s should not be treated as most 5-Shot Guns. Pressures for the petite guns should be held at 30k (Ruger Only) or less. This information is directly from Bob Baker.

Recoil from the 41 Mag, 44 Special and 45 Colt does get abusive as loads go up. There are certain laws of physics that can't be avoided. A gun chambered for these cartridges that weighs less than a Single Six is most definitely in this category.

I've found Longshot to be an outstanding powder for such loads. The lightweight guns heat up quickly with the hot burning Magnum Powders.

Hope this babbling helps a little...

[jfo4]

My recommendation is to get ahold of Brian Pierce load data for the .45 97.

My go too is 22 of H-110 and 300 cast. Brian has a load for the 338 Lyman bullet using HS-6 that takes the little 97 into the "wild" category.

[bt8541]

A load that I use in my FA97 45 colt is 20 grains of VV N110 under a 265 grain LBT gas checked bullet with a WW primer in Starline brass.

It is a High end load but not totaly maxed out. I don't shoot it a lot beacuse it is very unplesant in the 97 but in my S&W 25-9 is no big deal.

[paul105]

A LITTLE BACKGROUND:

I have a 4.25" FA97 .45 Colt. Bought it used in 2006 and over the next several years shot over 20,000 rnds thru it. Had to find out what the gun (and shooter) was capable of handling. Tested a fair number of 300 + grain loads mostly with H110. Tim Sundles (Buffalo Bore owner) used to post on one of the old bulletin board forums and discussed load development for his personal M97 45 Colt using H110 and 300gr bullets. His load used 21.0gr H110 and a 300gr LFNGC in 45 Scofield brass so he could crimp the long flat nose bullet in the crimp grove. Sundles cautioned about different lots of H110.

MY THOUGHTS (My 4.25" M97 .45 Colt):

I've tried heavy for caliber bullets (300gr thru 340gr). Using H110, I worked up to right around 1,150 fps (actual chronograph results). On some of the longer bullets, I've crimped over the front drive band on SWCs and on the ogive on WFNs/LFNs. I mostly used H110 but also tried 4227. I personally settled on two heavy bullets - the 300gr RCBS SWCGC (actual weight 320gr) and the Lee 300gr (also 320gr) dual crimp flat nose gas check. If I had to choose one it would be the Lee.

Here's a link to Matts version of the 300gr lee
.
www.mattsbullets.com/315-Grain-Round-Flat-Nose-Gas-Check-452_p_156.html
.
Link to Montana Bullet Works 300gr SWCGC
.
www.montanabulletworks.com/product/45-colt-lbt-315gr-swc-k-gc/
.

I wanted to see what resulted when using different primers (This using Matts SAECO 305gr SWC GC = WHICH I COULD NEVER GET TO SHOOT ACCURATELY)
www.mattsbullets.com/305-Grain-Semi-Wadcutter-Gas-Check-452_p_155.html

305gr Matts SAECO
22.5gr H110
1x Starline
Seated to and crimped in Crimp Grove
65 Deg F (chrono 5 long steps from muzzle)
.

.
NOTE: My observation: CCI 350s almost always give 30 to 50 fps more velocity (and maybe more pressure?)
.
I'd start at 20.0 to 20.5gr H110 with any of the above bullets and work up to desired accy.

CAUTION: I've used up to 22.5gr H110 for 300gr+ and as low as 20.0gr - REMEMBER SUNDLES CAUTION ABOUT DIFFERENT LOTS ABOVE. Freedom Arms (believe it was John the gunsmith) said they blew up a M97 and never experienced a "sticky case". So, proceed at your own risk.

Here's a couple of targets using the MBW 300gr (320) SWCGC.
.
25 yds rested
.

.
50 yds offhand
.

.
The gun:
.

.
These loads get pretty "snappy" in the M97. Old skin, weak and arthritic hands prevents me from using anymore
.

FWIW,

Paul

[potatojudge]

The 97 grip frame didn't agree with me at first, but now it feels pretty natural.

In the meantime, and I've posted these before, I modified a grip frame to be more like a small BFR Bisley contour. I did the shaping then sent it to JRH for final clean up (not shown). It sits more comfortably and nestles into the hand but doesn't recoil better or worse to me. Also shown is the Fishpaw solution to the 97 grip frame which works great except I wish they were a little thicker in the back strap.

[contender]

"I have a question that likely has been covered before but I can’t find what I’m after yet. Regarding the FA 97 .45 Colt, does anyone have any advice on how to load it “up to its potential”? And by that what I mean is a fairly heavy for caliber hardcast flat nose projectile going at a fairly high velocity with safe pressures while adhering to the COAL of 1.6” or less. Thank you thank you thank you."

"Careful handloading----always with the target in mind----should tell you when to back off. And, a call the Freedom Arms ain’t a bad idea."

Looking at these two comments is where I'll add my meager thoughts.

You want to step it up a bit,, which is fine. Over my 45+ years of handloading,, I have discovered that most often,, top end loads aren't always the most accurate. As David says,, let the target decide where to go. Accuracy is the key to truly enjoying handgunning. My definition of loading it to it's potential,, is finding the most accurate load, that's within the parameters of safety for that design.

[wyomingnimrod]

Gentlemen, great advice, all. And many thanks for the flood of responses. I’ve got bullets and loads to look into now, and I agree with you guys about trying to keep it accurate and shootable. I have other guns for other loads, just wanted to give a small nitro boost. To this one.
And I’ll bug Bob at FA for his suggestions too and will share them with the rest of the class when I can.
Cheers.

[gunsbam45]

I don't get along with the 97 grip frame, but they're great guns for those who do. John Linebaugh's friend Bryan Reece makes a 310 gas check for them. It's a cross between a Keith & SWC. The other options are just use Schofield brass or trim your .45 Colt brass back jus a tad if u want to use a longer bullet & still utilize the crimp groove as normal rather than going over the driving band, if the bullet has one to go over etc. I don't even remember what powder charge I ran behind the one I had anymore, but the 310 shot good in it. Seemed like once I got to 1050 or 1100 it was like tryin to hang onto a wildcats @$$ but it's been awhile.