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Post by revolvercranker on May 15, 2024 11:19:08 GMT -5
Any possibility that the expanding button is set too high inside the die? This can cause some serious drag coming back out of the die. I set mine so that they go as deep into the case as possible, without bottoming out in the case. The maximum-diameter section of the LEE expander sits kind of high because of the long, tapered section going INTO the neck. If one is used to the expander being closer to the bottom of that rod/stem, then it's easy to get it too high inside the die. LEE dies are different. Over the years, I've used most of the production die brands and even a few customs. I started my own collection with LEE, but "upgraded" to other die brands as I could afford it. Fifty-plus years in and I have sold, traded or otherwise retired all my other dies sets and have gone back to all LEE dies sets. I cannot remember ever actually experiencing an outright quality issue with any LEE dies I have or have had. I'm sure it happens, because I've had it happen with another brand a long time ago. Forester is the company that places the expander ball high on the stem in the sizer die. The reasoning for this is it prevents neck runout. The theory is the case neck (the mouth portion) is still in the neck sizing portion of the die as the expander ball just started in the base of the neck. They explain in their instructions how to set it up to achieve this. Now if I'm not mistaking you have more leverage with the ram with the expander ball set higher. Jeff you had better test your necks for run out setting that expander ball as low as you can get it. To me the best solution is a bushing sizer die. You buy the correct size bushing (or make them if you have a lathe) so that they size the neck giving it the correct inside diameter for you bullet. This also works the neck less then sizing it ALL the down down then expanding it back up. |
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jeffh
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Post by jeffh on May 15, 2024 16:58:40 GMT -5
The LEE expander's greater diameter is not at the bottom of the stem. It is possible to get that portion of the expander too close to the neck of the die, so that you're dragging the neck through too a tight, double-radius.
This is the expander shown on LEE's site as a replacement part for the 6.5x55 FLR die. I have one I could photograph, but I'm not disassembling the die when a pic already exists.
EDIT: I have no need for buhings. I use LEE Collet Neck-Sizing dies. |
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Post by revolvercranker on May 15, 2024 17:19:56 GMT -5
You're not using LEE Collet dies if you want to size the case body. LEE Collet dies are not a cure all for all reloading. Even a LEE Collet Neck sizing die can size the neck down to tight. If you're a knowledgeable reloader with a decent mechanical apttitude you can modify them.
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Post by bigbrowndog on May 15, 2024 18:08:55 GMT -5
JeffH, my expander is the opposite taper of what you have shown, the larger portion is at the bottom or closest to the decap pin. I’m wondering if the problem was known and their fix was a new design to the expander. Thanks.
Trapr
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jeffh
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Post by jeffh on May 15, 2024 18:17:50 GMT -5
JeffH, my expander is the opposite taper of what you have shown, the larger portion is at the bottom or closest to the decap pin. I’m wondering if the problem was known and their fix was a new design to the expander. Thanks. Trapr Well, that's interesting. LEE does change things all the sudden sometimes. The one I showed has been around for quite a while, but I think the previous/older version still had the long larger-diameter section, but the bottom was not a long, gradual taper, rather it looked similar to the top.
I don't have an extra expander for the 6.5 or I'd send you one just to find out. I just got spares for the 222/223 and 30/30 and they were as shown in the pic - and about three bucks.
Anyway, if yours has the loooong larger-diameter section, just not tapered, it could still let you get the top too close to the neck of the die. I did this ONCE, years ago with the older version and the cases went in just fine and came out REALLY hard. What I described previously was happening and the fix was to move the expander down a bit.
If that's what it is, I'd be tickled to see it work out as an easy fix.
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Post by revolvercranker on May 15, 2024 18:24:12 GMT -5
The long type LEE expander is the older type. The one Jeff showed is the newer type.
Trapr can you put up a pic of your expander ball?
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jeffh
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,749
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Post by jeffh on May 15, 2024 18:26:00 GMT -5
You're not using LEE Collet dies if you want to size the case body. LEE Collet dies are not a cure all for all reloading. Even a LEE Collet Neck sizing die can size the neck down to tight. If you're a knowledgeable reloader with a decent mechanical apttitude you can modify them.
I appreciate the concern and the help, 'Cranker, but I'm good and I don't want to stray too far from trying to help with the original problem. I'd talk your legs off about using LEE dies otherwise, so I have to keep a lid on it so I don't get carried away. Thank you for the help though.
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Post by revolvercranker on May 15, 2024 18:48:03 GMT -5
You're not using LEE Collet dies if you want to size the case body. LEE Collet dies are not a cure all for all reloading. Even a LEE Collet Neck sizing die can size the neck down to tight. If you're a knowledgeable reloader with a decent mechanical apttitude you can modify them.
I appreciate the concern and the help, 'Cranker, but I'm good and I don't want to stray too far from trying to help with the original problem. I'd talk your legs off about using LEE dies otherwise, so I have to keep a lid on it so I don't get carried away. Thank you for the help though.
LEE has some really innovative good stuff and a lot of junk too. The company has improved most of the thing they make except they have never improved the bullet seating dies in the rifle die line up. I'll tell you what is wrong with them. All that "tries" to align the bullet straight is that loose fitting free floating nose punch rod above the bullet and the only thing that guides the base of the bullet is the case mouth. All other standard bullet seater dies have a small bore above the case mouth of slightly larger then bullet diamter. Better guiding in my book. I'll tell you one of the best bullet seating dies out there that aren't in the elite high dollar benchrest stuff is Forster's Benchrest seater. That is indeed a true inline seater. You load the same cases and same bullets, one using the Forster die and one using a LEE seater and then put both rounds in a concentricity checker for bullet alignment and tell me what you see. What LEE dies are is cheap dies for the buck. Now don't get me wrong. LEE has gotten many people into reloading whereas they didn't have the money to buy the more expensive dies. I have some LEE stuff, like their Collet Neck Sizing dies. In fact I started off as a teen with the LEE LOADER kit. Basically those are kind of like benchrest dies. I loaded some damn accurate ammo with those. Of course they are neck sizers only and they don't expand the necks. In that respect you can't use them for loading cast rifle bullets. Now I modify my LEE rifle seating dies on my lathe and basically turn them into an inline seater. When I'm after accuracy I DON"T use LEE bullet seaters. Their collet type crimp dies are pretty good idea too. |
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Post by bigbrowndog on May 15, 2024 21:29:36 GMT -5
Ok guys my expander “was” the long straight expander then I turned the top portion down to a smaller diameter. Memory is such a dangerous thing, JeffH when you mentioned the long straight expander it reminded me of my modification. It does go in easily and comes out with way too much friction, it currently sits about as low in the die as I can get it. I’ll have my new dies in a few days so I ain’t worried but having an answer or solution definitely helps. Thanks for the walk down memory lane and the help.
RC, no I cannot post a pic of my expander, I’m pic challenged on this site.
Trapr
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Post by revolvercranker on May 15, 2024 22:15:16 GMT -5
Ok guys my expander “was” the long straight expander then I turned the top portion down to a smaller diameter. Memory is such a dangerous thing, JeffH when you mentioned the long straight expander it reminded me of my modification. It does go in easily and comes out with way too much friction, it currently sits about as low in the die as I can get it. I’ll have my new dies in a few days so I ain’t worried but having an answer or solution definitely helps. Thanks for the walk down memory lane and the help. RC, no I cannot post a pic of my expander, I’m pic challenged on this site. Trapr It probably would have been better to have left the expander straight. But all in the past with your new dies. |
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Post by bigbrowndog on May 16, 2024 8:58:45 GMT -5
No it wouldn’t have because that was when the problem started, it probably would have been better to not purchase the Lee dies but those were what was available at the time, but as you say it’s all in the past, now.
Trapr
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Post by revolvercranker on May 16, 2024 9:50:31 GMT -5
No it wouldn’t have because that was when the problem started, it probably would have been better to not purchase the Lee dies but those were what was available at the time, but as you say it’s all in the past, now. Trapr Trapr yes in the past, but I would like to know the reason for your problem. I've had that old style LEE and had zero problems with it. I also have a variety of 6.5 Swed dies and have zero problems. There's something else going on with your problem. I hope to God when you get your new die that you don't have a problem. |
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Post by bigbrowndog on May 16, 2024 11:00:50 GMT -5
I agree there is something going on but no idea if simply a bad set of dies, poor adjustment, bad cases, bad die parts, or what. We will simply have to move on without knowing, especially if no issue occurs with the new set.
Trapr
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Post by revolvercranker on May 16, 2024 11:05:18 GMT -5
I agree there is something going on but no idea if simply a bad set of dies, poor adjustment, bad cases, bad die parts, or what. We will simply have to move on without knowing, especially if no issue occurs with the new set. Trapr Trapr you said this in your first post " I push the expander button in with little effort and then sometimes cannot remove it without extreme considerable effort" I'm not quite understanding that. The expander should go into a fired case without any resistance at all. What's going on there? Now if it's factory new brass I could understand that because they are sized from the factory. I don't know how busy you are, but could you take one or two cases that have been fired and anneal the necks and then size them see what happens. I want to get this too hard a case neck out of my mind. |
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Post by parallaxbill on May 16, 2024 13:00:29 GMT -5
I load a ton of 6.5x55 Swede using older FL RCBS dies and use Unique paste case lube applied inside the neck every 10th case with zero problems. I had problems with spray type lubes sticking on the expander plug on the way out, which prompted the change to Unique.
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