45 Colt black powder cartridges

[sharps4590]

Oh...you mean Pyrojunk? Nasty stuff. I bought a bottle of P and RS when that crap first hit the market....what....40+ years ago? I used less than half of both and 35 years later finally met someone who would take it.

I tried T-7 initially hoping it would regulate in my Reilley double, 500 BPE. Nope, still not hot enough and neither was Swiss. Neither would regulate in my 11.15 X 60R double either. I ended up duplexing BP and SR-4759. But, T-7 did shoot good in my Shiloh Sharps #1 Sporter in 40-2.5. It didn't shoot as good as the old GOEX Cartridge or Schuetzen. It did shoot as good as Swiss and it was the best of the three subs I tried and yes, it is a bit faster over a chrono.

As I said, if I didn't have plenty of real BP, I'd be shooting T-7. For no more than I shoot BP these days, I definitely have enough left for my life.

[armoredman]

Sorry if I offended anyone, sounds like some people got a little hot at a question, my bad. I am not new to black powder by far, just new to black powder cartridges. I have made my own paper cartridges with no problem as well. Same revolver being used with home made paper cartridges.



Same gun being used with regular black powder.



Long gun, T/C Renegade .54 cal, fun rifle.



So, it's not like I don't know anything about black powder, I was curious about black powder cartridges, and I see that things aren't quite what I thought. Thank you all for your information, and I will try what I can when I can how I can. The new conversion cylinder fits quite well, locks up like a bank vault. I suppose to keep things easy I will just do what I know best and load with Cowboy levels of smokeless.
Again, thank you to all for your replies, much appreciated.

[sharps4590]

I didn't see where anyone got 'hot' or offended.

Is that the kind of conversion cylinder you have to remove to load and unload, yes?

[revolvercranker]

I have an idea. Those companies that make cylinder conversions should come out with one, for an example the Ruger ROA, where you get a hammer replacement that the firing pin on the hammer has been altered to a centerfire cartridge one, and you get a cylinder that doesn't have the doo dah firing pin arrangement. This would also give you a longer cylinder.

[armoredman]

Yes

[armoredman]

So here is what I did, in pictures.
I didn't have a cookie cutter for the BP lube, so boolits were dipped, then sized with a Lee push through sizer. Lube is a beeswax/olive oil/something I can't remember lube I used with paper cartridges, so I know it works OK in black powder.
Yes, that is a cat food can full of lube. That is my hot plate I use to warm up molds.


They look goofy.



I also powdercoated and sized other boolits for smokeless loading.



Dipped boolits sized - what a mess. However, it looks like they got the grooves lubed.



First ever BP cartridges loaded. I loaded 10 total, 5 with 29, 5 with 29.5gr Olde Eynsford 3F.



Perfect fit.



Shorter COAL for a shorter cylinder



And at the end of all this, I looked at the other mold mt buddy sent to try - THAT looks like a black powder lube groove! Gonna cast some of them up this weekend, I guess.



Now off to the range ASAP.

Critique away.

[revolvercranker]

Nice job of putting them together. Will await the shooting results.

[bigbore5]

I like the Lyman 452664.

[armoredman]

I was not impressed. I think the biggest problem is that is a smokeless bullet, and it didn't allow enough lube. Things started gumming up fast, and the cylinder pin was a complete pain to move after 10 rounds. Accuracy wasn't good, with the second group even keyholing one shot.



However, I did get a couple of nice pictures of my son firing the second 5 BP cartridges.





The smokeless loads worked just fine.



All in all I call the conversion cylinder a success.

[sharps4590]

That's always been a bit of a difficulty with Remingtons, the cylinder base pin is so small when compared to a Colt and doesn't have the grooves it fouls out quicker. It's just part of the charm.  Colt's will eventually gum up as well.

I think you're right, the bullet isn't carrying enough lube and, did you put a card between the powder and bullet? What was the alloy? If it's hard, it won't shoot with black.

If it shoots that good with smokeless, it should shoot that good with black.

That second picture of your son is really cool!

[revolvercranker]

The way to find out if your bullet is carrying enough lube is to see if there is a lube star at the muzzle.

[davet]

I've been loading and shooting BP 45 Colt rounds in a variety of Colt and USFA single action revolvers since 1985 or so. With modern brass (it's heavier-thicker than the old balloon head cases) I load 35-36g of FFFg behind a 250-255g soft alloy bullet lubed with SPG. I've never used an over powder wad in pistol ammunition, just rifle stuff. I have always used Winchester LP primers which are supposed to be suitable for standard or magnum loads. They have worked for me for years so I still use them for BP 45 Colt ammo.

Dave

[armoredman]

I am ordering SPG lube tomorrow, will use another cat food can to pan lube. I used WLP primers, worked just fine indeed. I will try a different load as soon as I get everything together. Right now the soft lead bullet I have available is the Lee 200gr SWC.



I can try again with the 255gr Lee, but the lube grooves are, I think, too small, which SHOULD have clued me in right from the get go that it wasn't going to work very well.



What 255gr bullet do you like the best? If Lee makes the mold, I can afford it.
Edit to add, the powdercoated ones in the back of the photo were used in the smokeless loads, did just fine. 

[sharps4590]

This is the bullet I use for smokeless or BP in the 45 Colt. It has an ample lube groove for either.  I have come to prefer one, large lube groove for revolvers.  They just always work and usually work quite well.

www.rcbs.com/bullet-casting/moulds/?cgid=molds&prefn1=caliber&prefv1=.45-255-SWC&srule=undefined

I like this one from Accurate Molds as well.

accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-251C

I looked at Lee's web site and their 45 cal. selections and I didn't see any that looked suitable for use , IMO. That isn't to disparage Lee, I have several of their molds to include 6 gang molds for 44 and 45. But they're tiny lube grooves just haven't been adequate for BP use for me. To make up the difference you could add a grease cookie between a couple card wads but when you do that, you sacrifice powder capacity and add a couple steps that aren't necessary with a proper bullet..

To reiterate, if it shoots good with smokeless it should shoot just as good with black.

[revolvercranker]

I don't know what you guys are talking about not enough lube. I have an original Lymam mold for a hollow base conical bullet for the Remington 1858 Army. It has very minimum lube capacity and I've had ZERO problems with it and lubing the barrel in the 50 some years I've been shooting it with various lubes. Here's a picture of the inside of the mold and you can see the plug on the table to make the hollow base, it's blurry.