Comment about 44 spl load

[z1r]

Howdy all,

Copied this statement form another forum: "6.5 grains of Unique w/a 240 SWC is likely to produce poor accuracy. It is simply too low of a powder charge." He was talking about the 44 special.

To put it into context, a feller posted that he'd loaded up a bunch of 240 SWC's over 6.3 grains of Unique in 44 mag cases for his 44 mag. His thought was that these would be like hot 44 special loads. I commented that even in 44 special cases the 6.3 gr was standard load. For reference, I shared that back in the day when I used a LOT of Unique, my 44 mag plinking load was 7.5 gr of Unique under  240 SWC. In my SBH, that load would consistently group well enough to regularly break clay pigeons at 75 yds.

So, I'm perplexed by the post I copied above as this has not been my experience.  Heck, if memory serves, I used a similar load in the 45 Colt in my 1917 and that thing shot lights out. I purposely loaded it light in deference to 1) the gun's age and 2) it was used by a Great Grandfather in the RCMP. 

Interested in everyone else's opinions that the quoted 44 spl load is likely to produce poor accuracy.  My experience just doesn't support that statement.  Heck, I used Unique in the .45-70 with cast bullets at similar load densities in my 1895.

[Encore64]

As I just posted in the Rifles Thread, disregard most input. Use a published source and determine what your gun likes.

A good selection of published data, a chronograph, a bench and a target are unbeatable for reliable feedback.

Unfortunately the internet provides the same credence to the knowing and unknowing.

I'll highly recommend Brian Pearce's Published Data as being spot on. But, even the best data is still just a guide.

You've got this!!!

[bula]

I agree with you. Unique at 6-6.5grs gives the standard velo. If that load is not accurate, it is not due to powder choice and volume. The individual gun may prefer a different charge, always a variable.

[z1r]

The thing that concerns me the most about the comment I quoted is that it was made my a "custom ammo manufacturer".

[Encore64]

Jan 7, 2024 14:00:40 GMT -5 z1r said:

The thing that concerns me the most about the comment I quoted is that it was made my a "custom ammo manufacturer".

Why does this concern you? Any title means absolutely nothing without something to back it up.

"Custom" does not mean quality, qualified, experienced or anything else. It's just words.

Again, on the internet anyone can be anything...

[z1r]

Well, I guess I'm concerned because unlike those savvy enough to question what they read, for too many, the internet IS the real world. Guy sells product on the internet, it gets used in the real world, and in the real world, bad things can happen. Not saying the guy makes dangerous ammo but I'd not trust the quality.

As for me, well, I started handloading when I got my first SBH. Even way back then, 44 mag ammo was pricey. My love of "obscure" cartridges furthered my interest in handloading as factory ammo was often neigh on impossible to find. I'm still here and still cautious, and still curious. I suppose the two go hand in hand.

[Encore64]

I've read your posts for a long time. There's no doubt that you know "a 240 grn bullet" can mean a lot of things.

Like you, I'm a curious sort and don't take information at face value.

[tullymars]

I think that I’d put that (feller) on my ignore list.

[kevshell]

Generally speaking, the Internet forums and social media is questionable for advice. A computer or smartphone gives anyone the capacity to position themselves as the expert. It's like going to the unemployment line for career advice. There might be some good information there but unlikely. There are too many factors to consider in a accuracy or reloading data. I get my data from reloading manuals, load data.com, Wolfe publishing, forums like this one and people smarter than I. The statement made in the original post could be factually true or not true with variables of lead hardness and revolver throats. Too many people repeat stupidity without first hand knowledge, etc.

[Encore64]

Jan 7, 2024 14:45:06 GMT -5 kevshell said:

The generally speaking, the Internet forums and social media is questionable for advice. A computer or smartphone gives anyone the capacity to position themselves as the expert. It's like going to the unemployment line for career advice. There might be some good information there but unlikely. There are too many factors to consider in a accuracy or reloading data. I get my data from reloading manuals, load data.com, Wolfe publishing, forums like this one and people smarter than I. The statement made in the original post could be factually true or not true with variables of lead hardness and revolver throats. Too many people repeat stupidity without first hand knowledge, etc.

THIS!!!

[lar4570]

On 24hr campfire several months back, a guy was selling Cowboy 45 Special ammo as target 45 Colt ammo.
Someone asked if it would fit a Ruger acp cylinder.
He said no.
I said yes.
He said it's loaded longer than acp for a 45 Colt cylinder and therefore won't fit.
I took pictures of 45 spl brass in a Ruger 45acp cylinder and posted it.
He grumbled... then went on trying to sell his ammo...
I wonder if this is the same guy?
He was talking like he knew what he was talking about, but obviously did not.

[z1r]

Jan 7, 2024 15:19:29 GMT -5 lar4570 said:

On 24hr campfire several months back, a guy was selling Cowboy 45 Special ammo as target 45 Colt ammo.
Someone asked if it would fit a Ruger acp cylinder.
He said no.
I said yes.
He said it's loaded longer than acp for a 45 Colt cylinder and therefore won't fit.
I took pictures of 45 spl brass in a Ruger 45acp cylinder and posted it.
He grumbled... then went on trying to sell his ammo...
I wonder if this is the same guy?
He was talking like he knew what he was talking about, but obviously did not.

I'm thinking it might be.  

All I can say is, buyer beware.  

That's why, if I have a question that folks like Brain Pearce haven't already answered or I haven't figured out on my own, I come here to ruminate with like minded folk.

[singleaction]

Mr. Taffin suggests 6.0 grains of Unique to duplicate velocities of the original (very mild) 240gr 44spl load at 750fps, and his midrange working load is 7.5gr of Unique at 950fps. In 44mag, he duplicates the midrange 44spl load with 8.5gr of Unique. (I’m taking all that from the reloading chapter of “Single Action Sixguns”). Based on Mr. Taffin’s considerable experience, 6.5 grains of Unique should be a perfectly reasonable 44spl load, and would likely be quite analogous to your 7.5gr charge in 44mag. That 6.3gr charge in 44 mag, that another poster mentioned, would indeed be quite anemic, and likely slower than the original 44 special load velocities. IMHO, your original assessment seems spot on.

[Encore64]

It always fractures me (and is a red flag) when people start pointing out what I don't know.

While there's plenty I don't know, I base my load development on what I do know. There's a reason we start low and work up.

I assume and hope most reloaders have a similar approach?

I can understand being cautious. I can't see what I don't know ever being a starting point...

[z1r]

Jan 7, 2024 16:09:39 GMT -5 singleaction said:

Mr. Taffin suggests 6.0 grains of Unique to duplicate velocities of the original (very mild) 240gr 44spl load at 750fps, and his midrange working load is 7.5gr of Unique at 950fps. In 44mag, he duplicates the midrange 44spl load with 8.5gr of Unique. (I’m taking all that from the reloading chapter of “Single Action Sixguns”). Based on Mr. Taffin’s considerable experience, 6.5 grains of Unique should be a perfectly reasonable 44spl load, and would likely be quite analogous to your 7.5gr charge in 44mag. That 6.3gr charge in 44 mag, that another poster mentioned, would indeed be quite anemic, and likely slower than the original 44 special load velocities. IMHO, your original assessment seems spot on.

Thank you sir.  

These days, since Power Pistol just seems to be easier to find than Unique, it has become my go to.  

In the .44 spl, I find 8.0 gr of PP under a variety of 240-250 gr bullets to be quite accurate and a right useful all around load.

With a few new 44 molds inbound, I'll be doing some load development soon enough to see which combinations work.