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Post by gemihur on Dec 10, 2023 20:13:00 GMT -5
Lovin' it's portability! If the cartridge doesn't live up to it's claims, just neck it to .264" and call it Creedmoor
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Post by 45MAN on Dec 10, 2023 22:02:48 GMT -5
MORE INFO PLEASE
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Post by gemihur on Dec 12, 2023 6:50:34 GMT -5
Why not the 30 TC? … a great perspective … Just exactly what is the problem with the 30TC cartridge?
Let us ponder this....
Let’s use Hornady Ammo information. We'll omit the Light Magnum stuff in the
30-06 and 308 loadings...got to keep it fair.
.308 150gr. SST Interlock
Muz 200 400 500
V/E 2820/2648 2392/1905 2003/1336 1823/1107
Drop +1.5" 0" -24.9" -51.4"
.30-06 150gr. SST Interlock
Muz 200 400 500
V/E 2901/2820 2473/2037 2077/1436 1893/1193
Drop +1.5" 0" -21.5" -43.7"
.30TC 150gr. SST Interlock
Muz 200 400 500
V/E 3000/2997 2555/2173 2151/1540 1963/1283
Drop +1.5" 0" -20.0" -40.7
As we can see, the 30TC outpaces the 308 by a wide margin and the 30-06 by some...
It is.....Faster....Flatter.....and hits harder!
Now for the... well, 'it's too close to the 30-06 to worry with' crowd.
....and the 308 is HOW close to the 30-06...?
The 308 is around 4% slower and produces around 7% less energy than the 30-06 at 500 y-
The 30TC is around 4% faster and produces around 7% more energy than the 30-06 at 500y-
This smells.....
As for trajectory....
The 30-06 is around 15% flatter shooting than the 308 at 500y-
The 30TC is around 7% flatter shooting than the 30-06 at 500y-
So if the differences between the 30TC and the 30-06 are nearly the same as the differences between the 30-06 and the 308.....
what is the complaint with the 30TC, I mean it does shoot flatter, faster and hits harder than both the 30-06 and the 308 AND it is a medium length cartridge.
I don't expect to realise these velocities from a 15" barrel, but it sure shoots like a dream!
Heck, If the shooting public doesn't want to consider these facts and deny the obvious and undeniable advantages,
why not neck the cartridge to .264 and attach the venerable moniker of 'Creedmore' to it and make it the hottest selling 'new' round since the advent of smokeless powder!
.... pay no mind to it's comparison to the 260 Rem… nothing to see here!
I like to shape wood to compliment the little break-actions, here is shown a boxwood/walnut forearm that affords a little more purchase of support while offering a bit of anchor to detent muzzle rise.
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Post by Encore64 on Dec 12, 2023 9:07:45 GMT -5
So, let's go back a bit farther and, as Paul Harvey used to say, tell the rest of the story...
Charles Newton gave us the 250 Savage in 1915. It was named the 250-3000 due to it's ability to reach 3000 fps. No small accomplishment for the day.
Then, decades later, P.O. Ackley gave us his version AKA the 250 Ackley Improved.
To his own admission it was one of his best accomplishments. With his contributions, this was no small credit.
Still yet later, the 250 Ackley was necked up .007" to accommodate the B.C. Superior 6.5mm Bullets.
Eventually with only small "lawyer proof" changes, we received the 6.5 Creedmoor.
Today, it's common place to form 250 Ackley by one pass of 6.5 Creedmoor thru the sizing die. Who believes this is a coincidence?
So, if history is any kind of teacher, necking this efficient "Ackley" case up and down will (and has) lead to many "inventions."
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Post by pacecars on Dec 12, 2023 9:22:06 GMT -5
And with the many improvements in .22 cal projectiles they neck the 6.5 Creedmoor down to get the .22 Creedmoor and call it the latest and greatest .22 center fire ever for big game yet they poo-poo the .22-250 improved. Rifle loonies do crack me up sometimes
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Post by Encore64 on Dec 12, 2023 9:26:00 GMT -5
My dad went to his grave saying there was NOTHING new after the 8x57 Mauser and H&H Belted Cases.
Different length, taper and shoulder, but nothing new...
The game is for gun "writers" to sell something "new."
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Post by gemihur on Dec 12, 2023 10:01:34 GMT -5
I love these guys!
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Odin
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,100
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Post by Odin on Dec 12, 2023 10:05:48 GMT -5
My dad went to his grave saying there was NOTHING new after the 8x57 Mauser and H&H Belted Cases. Different length, taper and shoulder, but nothing new... The game is for gun "writers" to sell something "new." So true! I remember reading George Nonte, who said much of the same. I myself have always thought of the Creedmoor as the 6.5/300 Savage. Mostly because I grew up with a 300 Savage in the house. |
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Post by gemihur on Dec 12, 2023 11:31:20 GMT -5
My disappointment is that for all the 'super' achievements to be realized with the 6.5 Creedmoor, that only factory ammunition delivered these.
Otherwise as a hand-loading proposition, the Ceedmoor was just an 'odd' 308 Win.
The proprietary formulation seems to be a mystic formulation unavailable to Earthlings
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Post by Encore64 on Dec 12, 2023 13:03:00 GMT -5
But Again, History is repeating itself.
With Powder Development, Savage was able to introduce the 300 Savage in 1920 with ballistics awfully close to the 30-06. Of course, modern powders boost the 30-06 these days, but we're talking over a century ago.
The same goes today with the 6.5 Creedmoor and 30 TC. Powders boost ballistics, but for the handloader capacity is still king.
Just as Hornady introduced their "Light Magnum" line with powders that surpassed what we knew as traditional.
History truly repeats itself to all that haven't learned from it.
The 308 Winchester is referred to today as a shortened 30-06. Reality is it was derived from the 300 Savage.
This goes to reiterate how far ahead of their time guys like Charles Newton, P.O. Ackley, Phil Sharpe, etc truly were.
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Post by Encore64 on Dec 12, 2023 17:56:33 GMT -5
Understand, I'm not say that all these cartridges aren't fine rounds. THEY ARE!!!
I am saying that a good idea never goes out of style. They just keep getting reinvented...
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Post by cas on Dec 13, 2023 22:04:50 GMT -5
My dad went to his grave saying there was NOTHING new after the 8x57 Mauser and H&H Belted Cases. Different length, taper and shoulder, but nothing new... The modern way is change one, maybe two things ever so slightly, give it faster twist barrel, give it a new name and then pump the pressure up an extra 10K CUP. |
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jpw480
.30 Stingray
Posts: 140
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Post by jpw480 on Dec 18, 2023 22:35:04 GMT -5
I think it's a great encore caliber i have same thing in stainless need grip and forend scope base,rings and scope and i'll be ready to shoot
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Post by stubshaft on Dec 21, 2023 14:11:27 GMT -5
Back in the 80's the entire line of IHMSA silhouette cartridges was based on the 300 Savage case. The 6.5 IHMSA was/is (with the eception of a couple of thousandths) a dead ringer for the 6.5 Creedmoor.
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Post by Encore64 on Dec 21, 2023 15:01:53 GMT -5
Back in the 80's the entire line of IHMSA silhouette cartridges was based on the 300 Savage case. The 6.5 IHMSA was/is (with the eception of a couple of thousandths) a dead ringer for the 6.5 Creedmoor. Absolutely!!! It just keeps getting reinvented with a new name... |
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