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Post by needsmostuff on Dec 5, 2023 10:53:44 GMT -5
I have been noticing the availability of a couple of single shot, break opens in 450 Bushmaster.
Of course it is too big for a serious Rook type rifle but my only interest in it would revolve around downloading it with cast, pistol type bullets.
Just checking to see if anyone has gone down that path with this round.
Just kind of like a 45colt single shot, but they are harder to find.
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Post by hunter01 on Dec 5, 2023 13:12:05 GMT -5
I have really been eying the new Henry single shots lately. The 357 and 30-30 are most appealing to me but the 450 would be a real stomper if I was inclined to go after a big bear. A 357 reamed to rem max seems just about “perfect”.
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Post by junebug on Dec 5, 2023 13:33:26 GMT -5
The 450 Bushmaster might be pushing it. My concept of a Rook rifle is a light weight fairly quiet pest, target rifle 38 caliber or smaller. Even the 357 Max would be pushing it sound wise unless heavy bullet light load was used. That's just my vision your vision may vary.
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Post by kevshell on Dec 5, 2023 13:49:29 GMT -5
Definitely could be anything you make it out to be. You may just want to call it your RO rifle (Rook Overkill). Essentially they were small game and pest rifles. You'll just walk around with your rifle knowing you'll never be undergunned.
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Post by pacecars on Dec 5, 2023 14:27:30 GMT -5
A Rook is basically a Crow. Might be overkill but it will work
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jeffh
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,606
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Post by jeffh on Dec 5, 2023 16:40:05 GMT -5
Whatever you call it, what's not to like about a single-shot, cast-bullet gun with a case size which will accommodate powder-puff loads of some considerable horsepower if you decided you need it on occasion?
My "rook rifle" is a 357 Mag. I shoot a LOT of 148 grain WCs at 38-Special target-level loads, 180 WFNs at just sub-sonic, but know I can push that 180 grain WFN to 1800 if I want to.
I have a 357 Max in the same format and could do the same with that, but it's mostly intended for deer with heavy cast loads going fast.
My 30/30 with a 118 grn RFN and 7 grains of Unique could be considered a rook rifle, since that's the mode it's in with that load.
I guess I'd say that it's more a matter of how you're loading and using it and if you want a 45 cal rook rifle, why the heck not? Any single-shot cartridge gun that could be loaded down to the leisurely load-levels of a traditional "rook rifle" wold be a lot of fun regardless of the caliber.
Which couple single-shot break-opens are you looking at? If they're "cheap," all the more fun!
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Post by needsmostuff on Dec 5, 2023 18:25:13 GMT -5
Which couple single-shot break-opens are you looking at? If they're "cheap," all the more fun! This is one , www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/rifles/cva-hunter-rifle/p/1506280Or of course the Henry Which Bud's often has the 450 Bushmaster cheaper than all the other calibers. Probably all a matter of redundancy as I have H&Rs in several cool calibers. Mostly just questioning if the 450 could be downloaded well. |
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Post by Encore64 on Dec 5, 2023 18:41:47 GMT -5
I'd suspect any cartridge could be loaded down. But, hangfires and misfires become a reality. I'd research proven data for sure. Probably reduced 460 S&W Data could be extrapolated for starting loads.
While probably a great cast bullet gun, maybe a stretch to consider it a Rook Cartridge.
I'd be looking at 5744 and 4759 for best powder choices.
Keep us posted, I have a Ruger #1 in 450 Bushmaster...
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Post by bcelliott on Dec 5, 2023 18:52:02 GMT -5
The .450 Bushmaster will work as a rook rifle with powder puff loads. I use this bullet cast as a solid and powder coated, weighing about 325-329 grains depending upon alloy: www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-45-ruger-only-plain-base-hollow-point-4-cavity-mold/The load is the above bullet very deep-seated (as in, well inside the case mouth--see photo below!) over 3.0 grains of Titewad, with the extra space between the powder and bullet filled with a couple of grains of pillow stuffing. (I load the same in .45 Colt with the bullet seated normally.) This is a very fast powder, and you need to be careful, but the noise is less with most of the pressure curve over very quickly and internally. The velocity averages 580 fps, with the muzzle pressure estimated well below 300 psi, so the report ends up sounding like a loud air compressor venting or nail gun or something similar. Of course, the downside is the rainbow trajectory, so range is severely limited. However, and this was amazing to me, penetration in water jugs is astounding--approaching SIX FEET! Part of the deep penetration is most certainly due to the 640 bullet shape, as I have not gotten as good results with other similar bullets, but this is no toy, even at these pellet gun velocities.  |
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jeffh
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,606
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Post by jeffh on Dec 5, 2023 20:23:24 GMT -5
Which couple single-shot break-opens are you looking at? If they're "cheap," all the more fun! This is one , www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/rifles/cva-hunter-rifle/p/1506280Or of course the Henry Which Bud's often has the 450 Bushmaster cheaper than all the other calibers. Probably all a matter of redundancy as I have H&Rs in several cool calibers. Mostly just questioning if the 450 could be downloaded well.
Yeah, the 450 BM sure has become popular. That should keep brass/ammo in production, at least until Hornady one-ups another of their latest-greatests with their next latest-greatest.
That's a neat rifle and more cool that it's under $300!
25" barrel and 8# weight seem a bit curious though.
When I think of "rook rifles," or "bunny guns" as Ed Harris calls similar, I'd be looking for something shorter (probably) and lighter (definitely), but that's a personal preference. I guess full-house 450 BM loads might make the 8# a good thing.
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aciera
.375 Atomic
Posts: 2,070
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Post by aciera on Dec 7, 2023 10:40:58 GMT -5
Been looking for a rook rifle. For a 25-21…..they have got pricey
And it has to be 257 bore.
Not the traditional English .250-.251
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sharps4590
.30 Stingray
I'm a Christian first, husband and father next then a patriotic, veteran, firearms aficionado.
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Post by sharps4590 on Dec 11, 2023 13:15:38 GMT -5
Being the pleased owner of a W.J. Jeffrey "Rook & Rabbit" rifle in 255 Jeffrey, I'm quite traditional on what is and isn't a Rook & Rabbit rifle. Even the originals stopped at 380. Anything can be loaded down, I've loaded the 45-70 and 450/400 NE down to almost cap gun ballistics but, that didn't make either a Rook & Rabbit rifle. For the most part the R&R rifles received the same care, attention and workmanship as the full size British single shot rifles. No production rifle in the US is comparable.
The book "The Classic British Rook & Rabbit Rifle" by Colin Greenwood is an excellent tome on the subject.
But, if you want to load something down to shoot crows.....have at it!! That has to be a heck of a lot of fun!!!!
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Post by Encore64 on Dec 11, 2023 18:40:24 GMT -5
I'll have to agree with Sharps4590 on this one. Although I'm thoroughly onboard with downloading the big boomers for fun, the Modern Rook Cartridge tops out at 357 Magnum. At least by my self imposed guidelines.
The 38 Special (for the handloader) and all the 32s from 32-20 down are ideal. The 327 Federal is nearly a dead ringer for the 300 Rook which was the quintessential Rook Cartridge.
The 25-20 works to fully duplicate the 255 Rook. And on it goes.
I'm about to embark on another Rook Rifle Project and I'll definitely post here.
The Colin Greenwood Book is expensive when you can find one. But, the handbook for any seriously interested in loading for small game rifles...
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jeffh
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,606
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Post by jeffh on Dec 11, 2023 18:58:58 GMT -5
Been looking for a rook rifle. For a 25-21…..they have got pricey And it has to be 257 bore. Not the traditional English .250-.251
I can send you some plain-based, 118 grain RFNs you can shoot out of the 7.62x39, very accurately, at 1k fps to 1800 fps.
Maybe it's not a traditional Rook Rifle, but the effect from the muzzle to the target would be pretty much the same.
Not a 257, but a Rook would likely not complain.
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aciera
.375 Atomic
Posts: 2,070
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Post by aciera on Dec 12, 2023 14:15:10 GMT -5
Been looking for a rook rifle. For a 25-21…..they have got pricey And it has to be 257 bore. Not the traditional English .250-.251 I can send you some plain-based, 118 grain RFNs you can shoot out of the 7.62x39, very accurately, at 1k fps to 1800 fps. Maybe it's not a traditional Rook Rifle, but the effect from the muzzle to the target would be pretty much the same. Not a 257, but a Rook would likely not complain.
That would be kool. I love to shoot cast. And the 7.62x39 CZ 527 is just for that |
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