Red dot vs scout scope vs ......

[kevshell]

I have a lever action that came with a rail and I contemplated putting a scout scope on then considered a red dot like the Leupold RDS. I've never used a scout scope but have read the cons can be shooting in low light and target acquisition with the longer eye relief. The cons for the RDS would be smaller field of view and lack of precision getting beyond 75 yards. Am I on track with this line of thinking? Am I missing anything? Or would I be better off staying with a peep sight?

[jeffh]

I've shot buckhorns, peeps, red dots, "scout" scopes on leverguns.

I had the issue you mention with the "scout" scope, but what really bugged me was the bulk and how it ruined the handy nature of the gun.

PEEP, if you can still make out the front sight, but there's no shame in a compact red dot on one either, and I've found that I can shoot very well with one at 50 yards. Using a dated, Tasco cheapie red dot @ 3 MOA, I was able to shoot just as good of groups at that distance as with the low-powered scope - and with NO magnification on the dot.

Lots of choices today in them too. Sig Romeo 5 has some neat features ("shake-awake" and 2 MOA dot) and isn't horribly expensive. They have a lot of good reviews. I have one on hand now - just can't figure out what to put it on.

I'd really rather use a peep sight, but can't always make out the front sight, depending on barrel length.

[bearskinner]

I have tried various red dots on pistols and Leverguns, and they really work well at close ranges. For me there quicker out to 40-50 yards. For a center body mass shot, for self defense, they are great.
If I need to shoot a coyote in the head at 75 yards, I can’t do it with a dot sight. BUT, with a pistol scope or scout scope, to me, the cross hairs placed exactly where I want to hit are the way to go.
I love to watch the guys in Europe with aimpoints track and head shoot running hogs. Almost like shotgunning. Under those criteria a dot sight is perfect. I believe it comes down to what you can see the best with. I like a 2x-3x long eye relief scope. I can keep both eyes open, and track moving critters easily. Some people can’t, or don’t like it. I’ve done it for decades starting with the ( terrible by today’s standards) old bushnell magnum phantoms.
Gotta play with a few differences to see what works for you.

[bearskinner]

I don’t hunt with rifles. I’m a handgunner, but I love playing with lever guns and single actions. The scopes I use all follow the LER style. Here’s a pic at over 200 yards, looking at a critter ( bad cell phone picture) thru my pistol scope. This is the same view I see while using a LER scope with both eyes open. I can place the cross hairs well using a scope. Thus same view with a red dot, would just make a red Elk, fully covered by the 🔴 dot.

[45MAN]

I USED A 376 STEYR SCOUT RIFLE, WITH THE LEUPOLD SCOUT SCOPE IT CAME WITH, AFIELD ON SOME RIFLE ONLY NILGAI HUNTS, AND DID NOT CARE FOR IT AND ABANDONED IT. @ 79 y/o RED DOTS DO NOT WORK GOOD FOR ME AT 100yds, MAYBE OUT TO 75yds OK BUT 100yds IS PUSHING 'em FOR ME.

I CURRENTLY HAVE AN ULTRDOT GEN II ON A FORWARD RAIL ON A ROSSI LEVER 454 AND AMBIVALENT ON USING IT THIS SEASON ON MY RIFLE ONLY LEASE SINCE I HAVE MY 16" WINCHESTER 45 COLT SRC AND A MARLIN 35 REMINGTON SCOPED, SIGHTED IN AND READY FOR HUNTING.

[prisedefer]

I've got a drilled out to ghost ring Williams peep with a fine red light pipe front sight on a Winchester 94. The top of the Williams is dead flat so you see the front sight and all the rest of the world. The essence of the saddle gun remains untouched.

[kevshell]

Oct 29, 2023 9:23:33 GMT -5 bearskinner said:

View AttachmentI have tried various red dots on pistols and Leverguns, and they really work well at close ranges. For me there quicker out to 40-50 yards. For a center body mass shot, for self defense, they are great.
If I need to shoot a coyote in the head at 75 yards, I can’t do it with a dot sight. BUT, with a pistol scope or scout scope, to me, the cross hairs placed exactly where I want to hit are the way to go.
I love to watch the guys in Europe with aimpoints track and head shoot running hogs. Almost like shotgunning. Under those criteria a dot sight is perfect. I believe it comes down to what you can see the best with. I like a 2x-3x long eye relief scope. I can keep both eyes open, and track moving critters easily. Some people can’t, or don’t like it. I’ve done it for decades starting with the ( terrible by today’s standards) old bushnell magnum phantoms.
Gotta play with a few differences to see what works for you.

I see you got one of those Black thunder rifles. The rifle that I am considering putting something on is a Big Horn Armory 460. It came with a rail on it. That's the only reason I'm really thinking about it. The first rifle I had with a peep sight on it was a commercially made m1 carbine. That's where I learned to love peep sites. I've done quite well ringing steel at 200 yards with the peep sights with my 500 Big Horn Armory. And really I was looking for whether there's a big advantage over putting an optic on this rifle or not. And I've used red dots on handguns and love them but they certainly have their limitations beyond 50 to 75 yards. I just wasn't sure if that might be different with a 1 mil dot with the RDS on a rifle. And I've certainly read enough from some guys who love scout scopes and others who bought them and hated them. I was dead set on getting one of the leupold scout scopes that had the red dot inside of it but they discontinued that one. Sadly they have discontinued several scopes that I was planning on buying in recent history. Looks like I might be leaning towards trying a scout scope and if that doesn't work go back to the peep sights.

[needsmostuff]

I prefered peeps when my eyes could see them well, but that's over now.
Decide on red dot or crosshairs, nope, rather not. Got plenty of both. Just grab the gun for the day that's planed.
My eyes are getting old faster than my brain so red dots on levers is a no brainer for me. Actually also a few other kinda surprising choices that are set up for "stand on your hind legs and shoot like a man" fun guns.
The SKS mount is ridiculously high so cheek weld is limited, but it doesn't seem to matter. And the Mosin makes banging steel at a distance with surplus ammo just silly fun. Both great grab-an-go truck guns.
On a serious hunting gun I would maybe lean toward crosshairs and magnification if shooting was gonna be over 100yds.

[bigbrowndog]

Precision with a red dot is not difficult beyond 75 yards. You need to start with a dot no larger than 4moa, then utilize the top, middle and bottom of the dot as aiming points instead simply placing the whole dot on target. I have no issue getting hits on 8” targets out to 200yds. I have one levergun set up with scout scope and the rest with optics run a red dot of some sort. They allow as much precision as iron sights will, they just allow easier viewing because you don’t need to visualize rear, front and target.
I find that 2” hi at 100, which correlates to top of dot on a 4moa dot allows for a good useable trajectory for most traditional levergun rounds. This places the middle,of the dot zeroed at 150yds and the bottom at 200yds, using my 30-30. Many of my ballistic notes show quick references to yardage holds as “top of dot @ 100” or “just over top of dot @ 100” or “bottom of dot @ 200”,….etc. Quite a few years ago I worked with the makers of the JPoint sight and developed a 3 dot sight that had a BDC type dot formation, utilizing 1moa and 2moa dots, getting hits to 400 yards was not difficult.
The point to remember is to turn down the illumination in the dot to the least amount you actually need, super bright only creates light bloom in the reflecting glass and distorts the actual size of your dot. I typically like to see thru my dot when sighting in, this means using very little illumination. Pick a cloudy or darker time of day to sight in, or play with your red dot.

Trapr

[giblett]

I've found out that im losing 10 to 12 minutes in the evening with my fast fire 3 on my 41. This is looking at does at the feeder. Carried the 44 with a 2x Leupold and they were shootable right up to legal light ends. So i figureim gonna upgrade to a scope next year. That glare gets bad the darker it gets.

[junebug]

A pistol scope will not get you those 10-12 minutes back. They just don't gather light as well as rifle scope do and I have trouble being precise with the cross hairs. I absolutely hate shooting at last light. What would take me 10 minutes to track in daylight, can take as much as an hour after dark. For me open sights are at the bottom, a LARGE peep is a step above, if you can see the front sight, then a red dot, then scopes are at the top of the bunch. You will give up something with all of them. If there is the slightest doubt that you can make the shot, don't shoot. Sometime the game, be it deer, hogs, elk wins, and you are the better man for it!

[45MAN]

junebug: I ALSO DISLIKE LAST LIGHT SHOTS. IN SOUTH TEXAS THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "finding 'em in the morning" AS THE COYOTES WILL FIND 'em BEFORE YOU DO.

[seminolewind]

Nov 1, 2023 6:10:25 GMT -5 junebug said:

A pistol scope will not get you those 10-12 minutes back. They just don't gather light as well as rifle scope do and I have trouble being precise with the cross hairs. I absolutely hate shooting at last light. What would take me 10 minutes to track in daylight, can take as much as an hour after dark. For me open sights are at the bottom, a LARGE peep is a step above, if you can see the front sight, then a red dot, then scopes are at the top of the bunch. You will give up something with all of them. If there is the slightest doubt that you can make the shot, don't shoot. Sometime the game, be it deer, hogs, elk wins, and you are the better man for it!

This is a true and timely post for me. I had to pass up a shot at a buck last week because the dot was too bright at last light to make a certain shot. I believe I could have made the shot with a scope sighted revolver. For the rest of this season, I will hunt with a dot gun in the morning and a scoped gun in the evening.

[bigbrowndog]

I agree with junebug, I tend to stop hunting before legal last light time. Identification of target, accurate sight pictures, length of tracking time, predators, are all reasons. Number one reason for me is I lost the best deer I’d ever shot (until recently) because I rushed down to find it in failing light. Sight picture through the rifle scope was no issue, shot placement was no real issue, but jumping it from where it lay and then running 150-200 yards into very dense cover and no good blood trail resulted in finding the deer 6 months later and not by me.

Trapr

[kevshell]

Thanks for all the feedback. Like everything else it appears to be situation specific. I grew up hunting in think eastern woods and a river bottom that was almost impenetrable. We lost light there faster than the guys in the fields. Now that I been hunting more in the west I see where it will be different here as well. I'm still undecided. I've used red dots on ARs and handguns. Never on a hunting rifle. Time will tell....