STARLINE 454 BRASS ISSUES

[45MAN]

THIS MAY BE Heresy, AND SOMETHING THAT "is just not talked about" BUT I KNOW SOME GUYS, INCLUDING ME, HAVE HAD ISSUES WITH STARLINE 454 HAVING TOO THICK A CASE WALL. I AM ALL FOR GOOD THINCKNESS IN THE WEB AREA OF THE CASE BUT FOR USE IN THE TIGHT CHAMBERED FREEDOM ARMS CYLINDERS I HAVE HAD PROBLEMS WITH THE THICK CASE WALLS THAT STAY THICK ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP END OF THE CASE. MAY BE THAT MY PROBLEMS ARE NOT A PROBLEM IN BFR OR RUGER REVOLVERS, I DO NOT KNOW AS I HAVE ZERO EXPERIENCE WITH EITHER AND THE 454.

ISSUE No. 1: THIS APPLIES TO ANY REVOLVER AS IT IS A BULLET SEATING ISSUE. WITH .452 BULLETS, INCLUDING SWIFT A FRAMES AND XTP MAGS, SEATING THE BULLET WOULD GALL THE INSIDE OF THE CASE, BUILD UP AN INTERNAL BELT AND YOU COULD NOT FULLY SEAT THE BULLET WITHOUT CRUMPLING THE CASE. MY SOLUTION WAS TO "deep throat" THE CASES WITH A VLD INSIDE CHAMFER TOOL. THIS SOLVED THE BULLET SEATING ISSUE FOR ME BUT ISSUE No.'s 2 & 3 STILL REMAIN.

ISSUE No. 2: NOT A SCIENTIFIC STUDY, BUT BASED ON PLENTY OF RELOADING, MY "FEELING" IS THAT THE STARLINE 454 CASES HAVE A LESSER CASE CAPACITY THAT THE FA CASES. WHEN YOU ARE DEALING WITH A HIGH PRESSURE CARTRIDGE, A "TOP END" SO TO SPEAK LOADING RANGE, THAT LOWER CASE CAPACITY CAN BE A SIGNIFICANT ISSUE.

ISSUE No. 3: WITH .452 BULLETS AND THOSE THICK WALLS, AND WHAT SHOULD BE REASONABLE LOADS, I GET SOME HARD EXTRACTION PROBLEMS.

I HAVE STARTED USING SOME FIRED WINCHESTER CASES FOR PRACTICE ROUNDS WITH THE 300gr XTP MAG AND FIRED FA CASES FOR A FA FACTORY 300gr EQUIVALENT LOAD WITH SOME SIERRA 300gr BULLETS.

WELL, I MAY BE FULL OF IT, BUT I GOT IT OFF MY CHEST.

I AM NOT BASHING STARLINE, HECK I USE LOTS OF THEIR BRASS, THIS THREAD IS PRINCIPALLY ABOUT 454 BRASS USED IN FA REVOLVERS ONLY.

[Encore64]

Interesting and I can't offer much in addition.

I've owned several FA 454s and one BFR so chambered. The FA would accept a larger pin gauge than my BFR. Only .001", but larger none the less.

I can only speak for my guns, not other BFRs or FAs.

Hopefully others can offer information of more value than I can...

[45MAN]

THIS 454 BRASS WAS SHIPPED TO ME ON 9/5/2018. I HAVE OFTEN THOUGHT "MAYBE I GOT A BAD BATCH".

[seminolewind]

Oct 12, 2023 18:57:23 GMT -5 45MAN said:

THIS 454 BRASS WAS SHIPPED TO ME ON 9/5/2018. I HAVE OFTEN THOUGHT "MAYBE I GOT A BAD BATCH".

Rey, I’d have to think this is a possibility. I’ve used Starline brass exclusively for two FAs with 300 AFrames and haven’t had a single problem like you have described. Been loading for them for six years.

[45MAN]

I AM PUZZLED AND THINKING WTF, TOOK SEVERAL UNFIRED STARLINE 454 CASES, OUT'a THE SAME MAYBE "BAD" BATCH, RESIZED THEM, TRIMMED THEM, DID NORMAL CHAMFERING ON'em (NOT VLD), RAN A BRUSH DOWN THE CASE TO GET RID OF ANY SHAVINGS, RESIZED AGAIN, BELLED AS NORMAL AND TRIED SEATING IN EMPTY/UNPRIMED CASES: 1) .4515 SIERRA 300gr - VERY HARD TO START IT BUT IN IT WENT WITH NO APPARENT CASE DAMAGE BUT SOME JACKET SHAVING; 2) .452 XTP MAG - SAME AS 1); 3) .452 300gr A FRAME FAIRLY NORMAL SEATING, NO APPARENT CASE DAMAGE; and 4) 265gr A FRAME - SAME AS 3). THINKING I WILL VLD CHAMFER RATHER THAN REGULAR CHAMFER ON NEW CASES. BEEN SEVERAL YEARS SO HARD TO REMEMBER ALL OF THE DETAILS BUT MAYBE THE COMPRESSED POWDER CHARGE WAS CAUSING THE CASES TO CRUMPLE?

[bradshaw]

Rey....
Missing comparative dope on
* case wall thickness.
* Case weight.
* Expansion of case neck.
* Flare of case mouth.
* Bullet, powder & charge which produces stiff extraction.

Interested in your sorting this out, as I haven’t experience with Starline .454 Casull brass.
David Bradshaw

[foxtrapper]

Maybe annealing this batch could help.

[kevshell]

I had/have a batch of 327 starline brass that will constantly get stuck on the expander plug unless I use imperial sizing wax. I've tried 3 sets of 32/327 dies and got the same results. I've never had that issue with any other starline brass. Curious to see what you find.

[bradshaw]

Rey.... “compressed charge”----which powder? The degree to which ompression raises chamber pressure varies greatly among powders. Ball powders (296/H110), are more dense than stick powders (H4227/IMR 4227), or flake or kernel (Hercules 2400/Alliant 2400). As such, ball powder resists compression.

Wouldn’t hurt to call tech @ Hodgdon and Starline.
David Bradshaw

[harold89]

With my current batch of new unfired 45 Auto, it’s getting sticky in my taper crimp die. I can’t recall having to frequently pull out and clean this die.

[shorty500]

Am no help on this issue. Been shooting FA .454s and Starline brass both since each was originally available with a lot of extremely heavy and therefore deep into case scenarios to fit the cylinder as my preferred loads start at 330grains of lead with zero issues.
Come to think of it the only “brass” issues I ever had were some WW factory loads that were initially fired in a Taurus raging bulls—t. When reloaded with very reasonable loads they started splitting from case mouth to almost at the web on the 6-8 loading cycle despite only being used in tighter FA chambers after the initial firing in the Taurus

[Encore64]

Starline Brass is STRONG!!! The only issue I've had is the brass isn't soft like other brands and it occasionally grabs on the expander. I just pulled the expander from the die and polish it with a Dremel.

I'll be following this thread and see where the problem is if it cab be identified...

[45MAN]

IN ALL 454 CASES I TRIM THERE IS 1 HERE AND THERE WITH AN UNDERSIZED (DIAMETER) RIM (IT WON'T GET GRABBED BY THE CHUCK IN MY CASE LENGTH TRIMMER), SO I AM GOING TO GRAB 15 UNFIRED CASES, ELIMINATE THE ONES WITH UNDERSIZED RIMS, THEN WEIGH THEM AND SEE WHAT I FIND. THEN MAYBE CHECK CASE WALL THICKNESS.

[crobloc]

Rey. I'm with David. Certainly a call to Starline should be on your agenda. Sometimes frustration

can be easily solved. Good luck

[matt56]

I will double check my Starline 454 brass but I probably won’t be much help because I’m shooting a Ruger SBH. The gun is from 2018 and the brass is probably the same age. I don’t recall any issues deep seating a 350gr bullet sized to .454 for the wide Ruger throats.

Here is a picture of the brass and bullets seated, I don’t see anything weird going on. I’m pretty sure it’s possible I used a NOE expander before pushing a bullet that large into the case.