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Post by Encore64 on Oct 7, 2023 17:27:59 GMT -5
Following my infatuation with Rook Rifles and Cartridges, I decided a small game barrel was needed for my Encore Rifles.
Clearly, the Contender Carbine is lightweight and the ideal platform. But, all my Encores are big boomers. 50 Alaskan, 405 WCF, 445 SuperMag, etc. A small game barrel would surely get more use.
After much soul searching, I went with the 300/221 Rimmed. Semantics play a huge part in the gun world. Who "invented" what, who "stole" what and the like.
But, the caliber is self explanatory. It's a 357 Maximum shortened to 1.365" and run through a 300 Blackout Die.
Ballistics are impressive from a 24" Barrel. But, this'll mainly be a cast bullet gun for me.
There's been a lot of talk about shortening 357 Max due to wall thickness. I can tell you it's not an issue with Remington or Starline Brass. Neck expansion only runs about .002". The bottom of a Maximum Case in a tight chamber should produce excellent case life.
This, like many of my whacko projects, will be of limited interest. But, I'll post results as I develop loads...
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Post by kevshell on Oct 7, 2023 17:35:20 GMT -5
I'm standing in line waiting for two of the SSK frames plus I have a G2 contender frame still in the box. And I have a hush hush device that could be attached to the front end of the barrel. I've been thinking very seriously about making that my yard gun.
Part of the idea is coming from the last few nights. It's been quite loud around the house recently. And while doing some yard work I discovered why. There is a yearling doe that went to jump the fence and got its leg tangled in the strand of barbed wire over the page wire. The coyotes have been loud enough to keep you up at night. The 300 blackout in a contender frame might be something fun to thin the herd with. I'm already set up with an AR in 300. So it will be an easy addition.
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Post by Encore64 on Oct 7, 2023 17:38:28 GMT -5
Makes a great setup. Of course, the fixed action of the TC makes loading very flexible.
Cast bullets over any number of fast powders makes a dandy small game and target rifle.
My 30 Reece is a favorite. This is basically the same cartridge lengthened.
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Post by kevshell on Oct 7, 2023 17:43:30 GMT -5
I always read the articles Seyfried wrote about the rook rifles. Always interested me and thought they would be fun. But I'll settle for the poor man's contender rook rifle.
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Post by bigbrowndog on Oct 7, 2023 18:02:44 GMT -5
I considered rebarreling my Hawkeye to 357max/30cal. In looking at specs it was obvious how close it was to 300Whisper/BO. I decided an XP would better suit my needs and shared the Hawkeye with a member instead. I still look at the assembled dummy round sitting on my loading bench.
Trapr
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Post by x101airborne on Oct 8, 2023 7:48:32 GMT -5
I bought my son a Handi-Rifle in 300BO. Not a cast or jacketed load it didn't shoot well. With a husher on the end he took his first 10 hogs and 5 deer. I liked it so much I'm still borrowing it.
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Post by Encore64 on Oct 8, 2023 7:49:37 GMT -5
I always read the articles Seyfried wrote about the rook rifles. Always interested me and thought they would be fun. But I'll settle for the poor man's contender rook rifle. The TCs can be fixed up mighty nice and don't take a back seat to any gun for real world use. The 30 Reece and 327 Federal are the finest small game cast bullet guns I've encountered to date. A slight advantage to the 30 Reece due to bullet selection. Most any 30 Caliber Bullet can be use and 32 Bullets pushed thru a .309" Sizer can also be used.
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jeffh
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,606
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Post by jeffh on Oct 8, 2023 9:59:58 GMT -5
LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE!
Sorry. You can only "like" a post once and that just had to be done. I have a little to contribute, but had to get that out of my system first.
I've played with the general concept fairly extensively, both in my mind and for real and it excites me, especially when I see others' interest in the same. Rossi, Handi-Rifles, Contender Carbines... Going on fifteen years now, this has been my obsession, but I've settled on the 357 Mag for various reasons, but it has been a close race between the 30s and 35s, which I sometimes think is still not really over for me.
I've been down the Handi road a few times in 357 Mag and Max and 300 BLK. Bought the 16" 300 BLK for $200 new and had some marvelous fun with it using cast at 32-20-like velocities, using RCBS 98 grain SWCs, up through 170 grain LEE RFs. All cast, no jacketed. It was very accurate and very handy.
When Ohio approved handgun cartridge-rifles for deer, I had it rebored to 357 Mag, but the chamber got messed up - fired cases looked like miniature 38-40 cases. Shot very well, but hard on brass. Had a Max reamer in hand at the time, so thought I'd try the stronger brass. Again, shot very well, but really hard on brass. Remington replaced the barrel under warranty, even though I explained what happened and offered to pay.
Pulled out the stops and went with a Contender Carbine, 18" 357 Mag MGM barrel, threaded. With or without the can, it makes the neatest little Rook Rifle" that I can also use for deer-hunting if I wish. QUIET! A student showed me a video of his MP5 with a can to show me how quiet it was. I showed him one of the Contender with 38 Special-level WCs. Now he wants a Contender.
Choosing between the 30 and the 35 was a drawn out and difficult decision, but I went with the 35 after all. I still get tempted to add a 300 BLK barrel because the case is so amenable to small charges of fast(ish) powders I already use and dotes on cast bullets. Then, I get the idea of making a 30 Reece or "300/221 Rimmed" and can rationalize my way into another barrel quickly and can't logically rationalize my way back out! It makes SO much sense! But then, my 30/30 Contender Carbine does what my 300 BLK Handi did and just as well actually - no compromises, like it was MADE for that type of shooting. Still, those cute little cases...
Dang, man! Every time I manage to tear myself away from the notion of adding a barrel, the 30 cal Rook Rifle thing comes up again and drags me back in.
VERY cool project! I'll be watching this thread.
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Post by Encore64 on Oct 8, 2023 10:05:20 GMT -5
Jeff, a deciding factor in this project was the interest in Rook Rifles.
So many expressed interest, but 30 Reece dies are impossible these days.
Since 300 Blackout Dies are readily available, I figured why not.
I scoped the gun this morning. A Vortex 3-9x BDC in Talley Mounts finished it up...
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jeffh
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,606
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Post by jeffh on Oct 8, 2023 10:28:12 GMT -5
... Since 300 Blackhawk Dies are readily available, I figured why not. ...
You are eroding the rationale of my list of "why nots."
I love the idea. I have 300 BLK dies on my wish list at Midsouth, because my son in law shoots it in his AR. I let y dies go with the gun, because a friend bought it and I had made a 300 BLK collet neck sizer from a 7.62x39 collet neck sizer - before LEE did.
Still have the moulds. I have 357 Max brass - and think Starline may even still have some in stock. NOPE! Just checked, but they'll have it again some time, so now I think I need to order another 250, just in case, since this idea is bouncing around in my head again.
OH, by the way, in case anyone wonders, the really fast twist of the 300 BLK Handi barrel worked just fine with the lighter bullets. One of my favorites was the LEE C309-113RF, which has been relieved of its GC shank and is now plain-base. Danged thing tosses .313+" bullets, so it covers a wide range of uses too.
Now long of a neck do you end up with using 357 Max brass? I could calculate it, but in real life, it usually comes out a tad short of what one would expect.
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Post by kevshell on Oct 8, 2023 10:34:02 GMT -5
On a side note, talking about those rook rifles. My stepfather had one of those old Remington rolling block 32 rimfires converted to a 357 Magnum decades ago. I never got to see it because I believe someone liked it more than he did and swiped it. But the idea of that always intrigued me. And if I were to do the same thing I'd probably do the 327. That would make for a pretty cool rook rifle.
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Post by Encore64 on Oct 8, 2023 10:57:42 GMT -5
The Maximum Brass is trimmed to the same length as 300 Blackout. So, the neck length is exactly the same as the 300 Blackout.
I've got some 360 DW Brass on backorder. I figure it'll do the same thing...
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jeffh
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Posts: 1,606
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Post by jeffh on Oct 8, 2023 13:10:43 GMT -5
The Maximum Brass is trimmed to the same length as 300 Blackout. So, the neck length is exactly the same as the 300 Blackout. I've got some 360 DW Brass on backorder. I figure it'll do the same thing...
C'mon, man! You're supposed to say something which would dissuade me! This is all positive and makes too much sense!
Funny thing - a few years ago, frustrated that Remington left us hanging on 357 Max brass, I hit Starline up and asked what they had against the MAX. I mean, you're already making the MAG, why not make the MAX?
Hunter Pilant replied and explained that to make it economically feasible, they had to get at least TWO different cases from ONE raw billet of stock, but that we were in luck, because they were gearing up to make the 300 BLK brass and it comes from the same stock as 357 MAX. I'd heard the brass composition of the Max was different than the Mag before, but had chalked that up to clever conjecture on the part of someone writing articles for gun magazines. Sure enough, 357 Max brass came available at Starline shortly thereafter and I jumped on some.
This would be a worthy project and something I'd probably use much more than the Max. "Storing" a "300/221 Rimmed" barrel on my new SSK-50 frame would make more sense than "storing" the Max barrel on it.
All I'd need is a set of dies (again) and the barrel.
Hmmm,... I wonder if someone who is recently smitten with some other latest-greatest new thang is ready to get off a 300 BLK barrel to fund their next new thang might be a source for a donor? Seems one should be able to have the rim cut on an existing BLK... And even shoot BLK with the added aggravation of prying the fired cases out with a can opener. In a pinch, of course.
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jeffh
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,606
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Post by jeffh on Oct 8, 2023 13:23:31 GMT -5
On a side note, talking about those rook rifles. My stepfather had one of those old Remington rolling block 32 rimfires converted to a 357 Magnum decades ago. I never got to see it because I believe someone liked it more than he did and swiped it. But the idea of that always intrigued me. And if I were to do the same thing I'd probably do the 327. That would make for a pretty cool rook rifle.
This thread is now squeezing me in a pincer tactic to spend money.
I know little about RBs, but have TWO; a 43 Egyptian, which looks like it was drug through the desert and across the ocean floor to my house, and a 7mm Spanish in much nicer shape, but have little desire to cast and load for either.
I've been toying with the idea of relining the 7mm Spanish to something I currently cast and load for, like the 357 Mag or Max, or 30/30. maybe even 38-55, but have not done much research on it.
The idea intrigues me as well and I'd love to put that "smokeless" RB back into action. A 35 would be really cool, but a 30 would be fully AS cool.
Seeing as how the "300/221 Rimmed" is not a SAAMI-approved cartridge, I suppose one could possibly chamber the RB in that as well, as long as one were to not get crazy with pressures trying to make it something "more."
I have to admit that this is the most exciting thread I've seen in a while. THIS is cool stuff!
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Post by Encore64 on Oct 8, 2023 15:25:55 GMT -5
On a TC Barrel, you could have a rim recess cut in an existing 300 Blackout Barrel.
With two extractors, you could switch back and forth to use rimmed or rimless brass.
I've got 1000 rds of Maximum Brass. 500 each Remington and Starline.
As previously posted, I suspect brass life to be excellent...
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