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Post by handgunhuntingafield on Jul 21, 2023 20:46:00 GMT -5
 ? They are on the shelves now Sixshot wasn't talking about anything jacketed, OR what is a bought-en HP bullet. He casts those himself. Ask him! Actually he did recommend a cast or jacketed HP….. |
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xae289
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 29
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Post by xae289 on Jul 22, 2023 0:14:09 GMT -5
Sixshot and all, I'm definitely considering a hollow point – the 300 gr XTP. I guess I forgot to mention that where I hunt has some fairly large black bears. I'm not specifically out to hunt them, but if one of my hunting buddies shoots one, I might have to put a follow-up shot on it. I and a couple of my hunting buddies have put follow-up shots on bears shot by another of our friends. That's why the two bullets I've been focusing on are the heavier 280 gr cast bullet or the 300 gr XTP and not any light and fast or medium-weights. That, and those are loads I've gotten single-digit SDs through my chronograph.
In any case, as far as bullet placement, I've always been a boiler-room shooter and plan to keep that up. I usually preferred to get there through the ribs to spare meat. With a handgun, it seems I should favor hitting the shoulder instead of avoiding it?
Bigbore5, those are definitely some impressive results with those cast HPs. All that color variety makes them look like some very lethal Skittles, haha. I mostly get my cast bullets from Matt's Bullets and Rimrock Bullets. Matt has played with the alloy for me. On this last batch, he skipped his usual heat treat on the bullet I like for a softer alloy of around 11 BHN. He also said he'd be willing to cast that same bullet out of 20:1 alloy for a small upcharge if I wanted an even softer, more malleable bullet.
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Post by sixshot on Jul 22, 2023 1:06:09 GMT -5
I suggested a cast or jacketed HP for those that don't cast but I haven't used anything but cast for probably 40 years. I can't tell anyone else what to do, just saying what I do, and it's worked for me and everything from deer, elk, moose, bears, african game, including cape buffalo. I did not use a HP on the cape buffalo, I did on the other animals. Maybe 10-12 years ago I started easing into HP cast bullets after reading about Bob's success with them, that would be Boolitdesigner! Also Bigbore45 knows his way around a cast bullet as well as anyone.
Again, not telling anyone what to do, just saying the way I have done it has worked for me with great success. Actually it's been pretty amazing how I've got not only great expansion, I knew that would happen, what I didn't expect was the penetration, yikes! With the right alloy & correct bullet weight & velocity you can make some lightning fast kills with cast HP's, true story. I always, always cast as soft as I can & still maintain accuracy, that's probably rule #1. I even do that with my cast solids. It's never made sense to me to cast HARD bullets, except for my cape buffalo.....just in case it didn't like me. To me a jacketed bullet is a step down in performance in most cases. You can't change the design limits of a jacketed bullet, at least not my much but you can take a cast bullet anywhere you want it. That includes speed, hardness, diameter, weight change, and one most don't think of, nose profile, just by using a different seating stem. Sometimes if I want to delay the opening of a certain HP I will seat with a different HP seater & close it down to gain penetration, works great. Think African Kudu, Nyla, Zebra.
Dick
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Post by bigbore5 on Jul 22, 2023 5:12:09 GMT -5
I use a round nose seater plug on some of my bullets to close the nose some for some of my loads as well. Seems to delay expansion a bit for bigger game.
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Post by bigbore5 on Jul 22, 2023 5:35:49 GMT -5
As to the OP, the rnfp can be a decent bullet. But it's not the best thing on game.
In my experience sometimes that profile doesn't penetrate in a straight line if bone is struck at any angle. It's easy to deflect it. A wfn with sharp edges seems to be much better with straight line penetration.
I prefer either a wide nose semi-wadcutter or an lbt type design. Another great bullet is the 640 design from Bulletdesigner as cast in MP molds.
The 640 is an interesting design that I had never heard of before joining this forum, but it's growing to be a favorite.
I always preferred a wn-swc with a secant profile. Still swear by them after 40 years of hunting with them. But I am seeing impressive results on lighter game so far with the 640 hp's.
Get with Sixshot and buy some. He'll fix you up with the proper alloy for your use. They are game slayers that outperform even the best jacketed.
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Post by boolitdesigner on Jul 22, 2023 12:51:34 GMT -5
Thank You Gentlemen...................
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James
.30 Stingray
Posts: 496
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Post by James on Jul 23, 2023 13:37:07 GMT -5
Hard lead or copper jacket bullet`s.... Both will work for you if you put `em in the right place
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pete
.30 Stingray
Posts: 293
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Post by pete on Jul 24, 2023 14:44:07 GMT -5
Xae289,
Ive shot a box of the Hornady 300s, don't know how hard they are, but if you look up HANDGUN HUNTING DOWN UNDER on youtube, you can see Lynn Thompson shooting some BIG game with them. Seems like they might be a little too hard for the smaller stuff. Can anyone here verify the hardness?
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Post by handgunhuntingafield on Jul 24, 2023 15:52:21 GMT -5
Xae289, Ive shot a box of the Hornady 300s, don't know how hard they are, but if you look up HANDGUN HUNTING DOWN UNDER on youtube, you can see Lynn Thompson shooting some BIG game with them. Seems like they might be a little too hard for the smaller stuff. Can anyone here verify the hardness? The 300 xtp doesn’t work real well at 44 mag velocities. |
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Post by bigbrowndog on Jul 24, 2023 16:08:57 GMT -5
Another thing to take into consideration regardless of cast or jacketed or mono is impact and launch velocity. Launch velocity tends to be more critical with cast these days, the most important of the two seems to be impact velocity. IMO any claim or example of bullet performance on game needs to include the muzzle velocity and range the game was taken so impact velocity can be extrapolated, or needs to be included. Also examples of expanded bullets that have been fired into anything other than game, be it dirt, sand, water or gelatin really do not give a true example of what the same bullet will do in game.
JMHO………Trapr
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Post by bigbore5 on Jul 24, 2023 17:50:25 GMT -5
That's why I like the 500's. They come pre-expanded!
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Post by bigbrowndog on Jul 24, 2023 18:21:42 GMT -5
Untrue, they come already .510 or .500, the act of expanding creates damage from the hydrostatic force of expanding. Yes they make no smaller than half inch holes every time, but when you need expansion to still need expansion. The WFN or Wadcutter does create some expansion by way of the energy wave created by the flat surface, but at the same velocity it does not do what expansion will do.
Trapr
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Post by bigbore5 on Jul 25, 2023 3:29:10 GMT -5
Untrue, they come already .510 or .500, the act of expanding creates damage from the hydrostatic force of expanding. Yes they make no smaller than half inch holes every time, but when you need expansion to still need expansion. The WFN or Wadcutter does create some expansion by way of the energy wave created by the flat surface, but at the same velocity it does not do what expansion will do. Trapr I was joking. But the very wide meplats do cause a visible shockwave on impact that I have only seen from rifle rounds. |
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James
.30 Stingray
Posts: 496
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Post by James on Jul 25, 2023 3:59:08 GMT -5
Xae289, Ive shot a box of the Hornady 300s, don't know how hard they are, but if you look up HANDGUN HUNTING DOWN UNDER on youtube, you can see Lynn Thompson shooting some BIG game with them. Seems like they might be a little too hard for the smaller stuff. Can anyone here verify the hardness? The 300 xtp doesn’t work real well at 44 mag velocities. Lynn Thompson did`ent seem to have any problems with the 300 44`s.... I`ve taken about 13 whitetail with the 300gr double groove 45 caliber XTP (made for 45 Colt) running at 1400fps and their terminal performace was all I could ask for, including extreme angle shots... The 300gr 44 caliber XTP did equally as well on medium game from FA`s 44 w/7 1/2" barrel. Recovered 44 caliber 300gr XTP from boar.  |
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Post by sixshot on Jul 25, 2023 11:32:51 GMT -5
Lynn Thompson whacked a whole bunch of water buffalo with those Hornady XTP's, many of them running full speed & it didn't look like he was having much trouble putting them down. He's a great handgun shot, and knows where to place his bullets. When he tried using the spear the buffalo almost threw it back at him!
Also James has a ton of big game under his belt using many different bullets, mostly "2 step" bullets & he very seldom misses, even at long range shooting in the river canyon. I was standing right beside him.
Dick
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? They are on the shelves now
