Best way to start a petition on this forum

[jb500]

I first tried asking the forum staff but when I typed "Admin" or "Forum Staff" in the message to block, it wouldn't send. So I am asking here: how do I start a petition on this forum  to get Starline Brass to make a run of 500 JRH brass?   Buffalo Bore, the only current source for it, wants a ridiculous amount of money, $158.11 for 100, with no listed quantity discounts, plus their shipping is exorbitant as well. I ordered 3 boxes of 20 rounds 500 JRH from them and the shipping was $31 or so. Just to ship a 5 pound box of small dimensions. 1/2 that was profit for them I am sure, and I chose the cheapest shipping option. 

1,000 pcs of 500 SW Mag brass or 500 SW Special brass is $211 for 250 pcs, and $602 for 1,000 pcs, whereas 1,000 pcs of Buffalo Bore 500 JRH brass would be $1581.1 plus shipping taking it over $1600. 

For $494 I can get a Grizzly Industrial 4 x 6 inch mini metal lathe, 1,000 pcs of Starline 500 SW Mag brass, and cut that down to 1.4 inches and it will fit into my BFR. And I will be into it for $602 + $494 + shipping, or about $1150, and still save $450 over buying proper headstamped brass from Buffalo Bore.

So the best solution is to get Starline Brass to make a run of 500 JRH for all of us, and I would be willing to purchase 2500 pcs from them. Odds are it will cost the same or very, very close to 500 SW Mag brass, about 84.4 cents each for 250 and 60.2 cents /pc for 1,000 pcs. 

So how do I start a petition, and it would be good to get both names and quanities desired. For your convenience, Starline lists quantities for sale in 250 pieces, 500 pieces, and 1,000 pieces, each price discounted as you go up in quantity. 

I look forward to all your responses. Please, all pertinent shooters and then some reply. Thanks. 

JB500

[jack]

I don't think of Tim as a ripoff, and I don't begrudge him needing to make money. He doesn't HAVE to offer the 500m JRH brass at all, and he makes some damn fine and useful ammo options.

I have a lathe of course, but I trimmed my 500 S&W down on a Hornady Trimmer that I modified to run on hand drill for free. Works good. When I really need to remove a lot of brass I made one of those cheapo Harbor Freight chop saws that cost like 40 bucks into a trimmer using a Wilson cast trimmer base. Had it for a dozen years or so and still on the first blade! Have done thousands of pieces on it. Where there is a will there is a way!

While it would be nice indeed the have brass available from Starline, I am sure it is a matter of economics and the pressure of trying to keep up with the FAR more common brass that is only occasionally available. I personally would rather see a far more steady supply of 327, 44 mag, 45 colt, and a number of others before I was worried about the 500. I imagine shooters of those more common rounds far outnumber us 500 guys by a substantial margin! I also imagine that shooters are far more likely the wear out 357 or 44 brass than they are 500 - requiring replenishing the larder more often. I know that I love to shoot my 500's - but it is gonna take a long time to wear out 1000 pieces!

They are pretty receptive people at Starline, and have always been friendly when I called about things. What did they say to you when you asked them about a run of 500 JRH?

[Encore64]

I absolutely refuse to pay Buffalo Bore's ridiculous price for this price. I extend that reaction to all their products for the same reason.

Luckily, both my 500 JRHs are early BFRs with the wide spur hammers. These guns are just better fit and finished than the newer BFRs I've handled.

This means I can simply shorten 500 S&W Brass. Also, Starline's 500 Special works like a champ.

Likewise, both my guns have auxiliary cylinders in 50 AE.

Life is GOOD!!!

[jb500]

I will ask Starline about making a run of it when I can give them a number of interested parties that will buy it. That way I can talk with them intelligently about it.

[zeus]

It’s not a petition, you need to get enough people that want it to make an order. They are a private company with a production schedule. They would toss a petition in the garbage and probably laugh. Start a thread if you want in the gunsmithing section and see how many buyers you can line up. If it’s anything like the old days, you’ll need about 100,000 pieces to make an order. You could call and ask how many it would take to make a run and go from there.

[mike454]

In addition to what Zeus mentioned, I believe that with the Linebaugh cartridges, Buffalo Bore had an exclusive on those as long as they hit a minimum annual order.

Here's a jig to use with the harbor freight chop saw to get brass ready for final trim
www.ebay.com/itm/113228755539?hash=item1a5cf5b253:g:d3kAAOSwtJFfBSJW&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA0NizWbyQ%2F05%2F7aej2XpgBr0%2Br%2F%2BgKi4oOmH6oGvBr2Nh1kTNIVDGMhF9Fs421hkvak7yvRV0%2BMpYBk8HuMceZpZHe%2BqIWCv0mkqKE%2Bv2%2FNrLsN9MKF%2FJBpkohu7sOQtiCluoa%2F79Khey7pFVlkqUt8lWMa1BrWHwtFkhDQ7IRQr%2F1AP7%2BZdgYwbVcHONL6lsFarSIH90VB9DCnE6vbdNMgrCgNrjIosAMydXlbaY4wdUrJOu6zWvt2VNv4c7pqX5iKeoYNrpJZ7dT4p7RTcjw1Y%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMmv6Ese1h

[matt56]

You’re talking about the exact reason I don’t own a 500 JRH BFR, really wanted a bisley model when they came out. Unfortunately that ship has sailed

[bigbrowndog]

Ahhh,….Capitalism!!! Where you get to charge whatever you want and leave it up to the buyer to determine if they want it bad enough.
I think a quick call to Starline to determine their requirements for production would be step #1, before trying to start a petition or put a group buy together. I also would be prepared to have to purchase the vast majority of the needed amount, because despite what you see here on this forum. There are probably very few people who have the desire or inclination to purchase large amounts of brass in advance or in preparation of a probable need. Also, 200-500 rounds will probably be a lifetime or many lifetime supply to many owners of a 500jrh.
This means you might get half of your required amount taken care of by potential owners and owners, you will be required to purchase the rest of the brass and sit on it. Possibly selling 100-200 cases occasionally to folks who hear about your group buy too late to get in on it, like years later. So please take all of this into account and decide whether trimming down and rim turning isnt worth the effort, if after contemplating this you still decide to meet Starlines minimum, go for it. If you decide to go with trimming and turning your own needs in small batches, let me know I’ve got a fair amount of 500sw brass for you to get by on till you find your lifetime supply.

Trapr

[CraigC]

If I remember right, Tim had to order 50,000rds of brass to get them made. That is no small investment that probably turned out to be a lot more long term than he would've liked. No idea what his profit margin is but I doubt it's much. Personally, I'm going to buy Tim's friggin' brass and be glad to get it, because it beats the hell out of trimming S&W cases.

[bamagreg]

Or you could buy the 500 Special brass that Starline has in stock. It can be loaded to do much of what 500 JRH can do.

[potatojudge]

We have a member here who forms 500 WE brass for sale at a very reasonable price, especially given the involved process and specialized dies as well as less common parent brass.

I imagine the much simpler process of modifying 500 S&W brass would result in equally reasonably priced brass.

Probably easier to talk him into setting up to offer brass than have Starline do a run.

I'm not familiar with chamber variances in the JRH. Is trimming, inside reaming, and sizing all needed? Just trimming and sizing? Is there ever any rim trimming? I'm talking to make JRH brass that will fit in any JRH no matter the maker.

[bigbrowndog]

PJ, for a universal fit 500jrh, rim turning is required. Freedom Arms converted guns require it, and as I recall Jack designed his 500 to specifically fit an FA cylinder.

Trapr

[magman]

Didn't Jack at one time have a supply of it he was selling?

[Encore64]

Jack did have brass, but it's long gone.

500 S&W does need to have the rims turned for the FA83. But, only need trimming for the BFR.

I've loaded up to 400 Gr Bullets in trimmed brass with no issues. I've read guys using 440+ Gr Bullets have experienced case bulging.

[jeffh]

A few years ago, frustrated by the lack of 357 Max brass and unpredictable Remington production runs, I e-mailed Starline and asked whey they didn't make 357 Ma brass. Seemed a simple-enough thing to me.

I received a polite and informative explanation from Hunter Pilant that the 357 Max was made from a different composition of "raw material" than the 357 Mag. They could not commit to adding another form of raw material unless they could make at least two cartridge cases from it. He also shared that they would "soon" be adding the 'Max, because the 300 BLK used the same raw material (there's the "two") was on the menu "soon" as well. True to his word, a few months later, I got my first order of brand new Starline 357 Max brass.

Hunter did not need to share all that information, or to reply at all, but he did. The courtesy he extended to a customer of mere thousands, as opposed to hundreds of thousands, impressed me. I've been a fan of Starline brass since they started putting their own headstamp on the brass they make, and probably before. I will gladly do business with a company like that, whether it's cartridge brass, produce, home insurance, whatever. In fact, at this stage of the game, if I ever add a cartridge to my current selection (not likely), I will check to see if Starline offers that cartridge before deciding.

I'd say approach Starline like you would any friend or neighbor for whom you have some respect. Ask about the possibility. You may not get the brass you want at the price you want to pay, but you will at least get an honest and respectful reply. Starline isn't a huge company. They're a handful of pretty down-to-earth people. Maybe they can, maybe they can't, but at least you'll know. Their brass prices have stayed pretty steady through all the mayhem, so they're paying attention to what they can afford to offer, but still offering a lot of stuff others have completely abandoned.