|
|
Post by starmetal47 on Nov 10, 2022 11:07:36 GMT -5
U.S. Patent 3,996,686 This patent, entitled “Gear-driven Double-action Firing Mechanism for Firearms,” was filed by Richard L. Baker on 24 March 1975, and was granted 14 December 1976. The patent covers both a gear-driven double-action mechanism “to provide an easier and smoother pull during double-action” and a hammer that pivots on an eccentric “in such a way that unless the trigger is pulled, the hammer is out of alignment with the firing pin.” Baker cites earlier patents that utilize similar mechanisms, some from the 19th century.   |
|
|
|
Post by Flashman on Nov 12, 2022 11:52:19 GMT -5
For what its worth, my experience with the 10 shot 617 has been less than idea. Purchased new in 2009, it now has just over 20,000 rounds. It had a wonderful trigger. However, it has been returned to the factory about 15 times for warranty repair. Initially, the sights were not aligned to the barrel--the rear sight was far over to the right for POI to match POA. Once that was corrected, it was returned for shotgun pattern accuracy. Although better now it has never been particularly accurate.
Later and quite amusingly the crane assembly flew off the gun during a reload in a steel match.
At the 10000 round mark, it started intermittent light strikes. This has been a continue problem since then. Although I didn't realize it at the time, it appears the initial solution was tightening the strain screw. I used to be pretty competitive in my local steel matches consistently placing in the top third but then dropped to the bottom third. It was frustrating but I chocked it up to age and maybe lack of practice. About two years ago, I changed some springs and added shims to my GP's and SP and discovered an entirely new dimension in revolver shooting. The Rugers had far better trigger pulls and much less weight than the 617 which was not the case when the 617 was purchased. I started playing with the strain screw and guess what, it became much more shootable but the light strikes reappeared. It has been back and forth to S&W since then several times. The light strike problem is better but not gone and the trigger is pretty heavy. That said, although I understand 22 revolvers are problematic with respect to ignition, why was the 617 problem free (at least with respect to light strikes) for the first 10,000 rounds but hasn't in the following 10,000 rounds.
To be honest, I would probably avoid 22 double action revolvers for practice and competition if I had to do it again. But I also remember at one time being the only 22 shooter with a consistently reliable handgun in my local steel matches (including MkII's & III's, etc.).
|
|
|
|
Post by bradshaw on Nov 12, 2022 12:30:10 GMT -5
For what its worth, my experience with the 10 shot 617 has been less than idea. Purchased new in 2009, it now has just over 20,000 rounds. It had a wonderful trigger. However, it has been returned to the factory about 15 times for warranty repair. Initially, the sights were not aligned to the barrel--the rear sight was far over to the right for POI to match POA. Once that was corrected, it was returned for shotgun pattern accuracy. Although better now it has never been particularly accurate. Later and quite amusingly the crane assembly flew off the gun during a reload in a steel match. At the 10000 round mark, it started intermittent light strikes. This has been a continue problem since then. Although I didn't realize it at the time, it appears the initial solution was tightening the strain screw. I used to be pretty competitive in my local steel matches consistently placing in the top third but then dropped to the bottom third. It was frustrating but I chocked it up to age and maybe lack of practice. About two years ago, I changed some springs and added shims to my GP's and SP and discovered an entirely new dimension in revolver shooting. The Rugers had far better trigger pulls and much less weight than the 617 which was not the case when the 617 was purchased. I started playing with the strain screw and guess what, it became much more shootable but the light strikes reappeared. It has been back and forth to S&W since then several times. The light strike problem is better but not gone and the trigger is pretty heavy. That said, although I understand 22 revolvers are problematic with respect to ignition, why was the 617 problem free (at least with respect to light strikes) for the first 10,000 rounds but hasn't in the following 10,000 rounds. To be honest, I would probably avoid 22 double action revolvers for practice and competition if I had to do it again. But I also remember at one time being the only 22 shooter with a consistently reliable handgun in my local steel matches (including MkII's & III's, etc.). ***** flashman.... sad tale, but thank you for reporting. Sounds as though barrel was crooked to frame; I’ve shot some L-frames which could not be sighted-in. LIGHT INDENT (weak primer strike)* Strain screw backed off. * Weak mainspring. * Endshake. * Headspace. * Compressed firing pin. * Gradou in floating firing pin. Bought, in college, a used K-22 made in the 1950’s. Wore out the stop (cylinder stop). That’s it. Spectacularly accurate & reliable. Revolver never took a detour. There are, or were, many like it. David Bradshaw |
|
|
|
Post by starmetal47 on Nov 12, 2022 12:42:29 GMT -5
One of my friends purchased a Smith Titanium double action revolver in 22mag. It wouldn't even get through half the cylinder without firing all the rounds. He sent it back to Smith and he said it's a better now.
I have a 617 Smith since mid 1980's. Not only is it the most accurate 22 LR pistol I've ever seen, but it has worked flawlessly all those years. No misfires at all. I have since added a 22 mag cylinder to it and same with it, no missfires. I have an early Ruger MK I and I honestly believed that no revolver was going to outshoot it, that is 22 rimfire. Boy was I wrong, the 617 does! Now another revolver I have is a stainless Smith 34 kit gun. Unless you press the round firmly in the cylinder, especially when it's dirty, it will have misfires. I haven't messed with either two of the Smiths mentioned here. I also have an early Walther PP 22 LR and it's a wonderful pistol, extremely accurate and flawlessly accurate.
|
|
|
|
Post by longoval on Nov 12, 2022 23:05:12 GMT -5
My 10 shot 617 is accurate. No experience with the Colt.
|
|
|
|
Post by paul105 on Nov 13, 2022 11:55:10 GMT -5
Been pretty happy with my 4" M617 - no experience with the colt .  . . couple of 100 yd targets: . Two cyls shot fairly fast: .  . One cyl at 100 yds same day as above, same wind conditions. .  . 25 yds: .  .  . FWIW, Paul |
|
|
|
Post by bradshaw on Nov 13, 2022 12:36:03 GMT -5
Paul.... thanks for providing these targets. This accuracy compliments that of the old K-22, and as well a J-frame Model 34 Kit Gun. This is where it’s at for making a proper .22 revolver.
David Bradshaw
|
|
|
|
Post by starmetal47 on Nov 13, 2022 12:47:27 GMT -5
Been pretty happy with my 4" M617 - no experience with the colt . . . couple of 100 yd targets: . Two cyls shot fairly fast: . . One cyl at 100 yds same day as above, same wind conditions. . . 25 yds: . . . FWIW, Paul Paul that's some pretty good shooting. What size bull do you use at 100 yards? |
|
|
|
Post by flyingzebra on Nov 13, 2022 14:09:09 GMT -5
Photos I've seen of the new Colt show buffing-wheel polishing of the exit end of the cylinders, showing 'smearing' of the perpendicular face of the cylinders
Glossy, yes - but I don't think I'd be getting away with that on any work I'd be doing
If the Colt is indeed any smaller than the S&W that could be a good thing, maybe
Hopefully they're consistently accurate guns
If so, good for everyone
|
|
|
|
Post by paul105 on Nov 13, 2022 14:48:36 GMT -5
Been pretty happy with my 4" M617 - no experience with the colt . . . Paul Paul that's some pretty good shooting. What size bull do you use at 100 yards? The hundred yard groups were shot with 4x Leupold - center hold on bare sheet of cardboard. . 25 yds, different day w/2x leupold paul |
|
|
|
Post by rangersedge on Nov 13, 2022 18:16:20 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by flyingzebra on Nov 13, 2022 18:52:56 GMT -5
There's one of the photos I have seen of a cylinder exit end face that looks like it's been hit a little too aggressively with the buffing wheel  Maybe it's fine I don't think that guy posted any targets |
|
|
|
Post by rangersedge on May 31, 2023 21:22:25 GMT -5
Anyone have experience with both now?
|
|
