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Post by starmetal47 on Sept 7, 2022 23:27:50 GMT -5
For the darn of me I still can't figure out why many of you don't want to use the 45acp brass in the 45acp cylinders. I've had my Blackhawk convertible for over 30 years and have no problems at all shooting the 45acp cases in it. Now I do understand about shooting 45 Cowboy Starline brass in the 460 Rowland because of the headspace issue with the shorter 45acp case. My Blackhawk with the 45acp cylinder is one of the more accurate revolvers I own. I do shoot acp and Super in my convertible. They are accurate and the Super is powerful enough when loaded warm. I have no problem with either. My thinking was a three cylinder for 45acp standard loads and the hotter 45Super I already load. The second cylinder would be for the 460 Rowland. The third for Schofield and 45 Special loaded to 5-shot only pressure. With modern powders, it would cover anything I want to do with it with improved efficiency over the old Colt case and allow longer nose profile bullets to crimp in the crimp groove. The 5-shot cylinder will easily withstand the Rowland and +p+ Schofield or cowboy loads. Only reason I mentioned the Cowboy Special is because it can essentially be used with longer bullets seated out, loaded to duplicate the Rowland. I may infact save some cash and drop the Rowland cylinder altogether. I read you, but I can tell you the 45 acp case is plenty strong especially when it's fully supported. I can also tell you that if you want to run the 45 acp hot in strong revolver, that is strong cylinder, all you have to do it is use the small pistol primered 45acp cases as they have a lot more meat where it's needed.
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Post by bigbore5 on Sept 8, 2022 0:38:59 GMT -5
Already use small rifle or magnum primers in the hot Blackhawk only 250gr 45acp loads I've been trying. They won't feed in the 1911 so no worries.
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Post by Encore64 on Sept 8, 2022 5:26:40 GMT -5
For the darn of me I still can't figure out why many of you don't want to use the 45acp brass in the 45acp cylinders. I've had my Blackhawk convertible for over 30 years and have no problems at all shooting the 45acp cases in it. Now I do understand about shooting 45 Cowboy Starline brass in the 460 Rowland because of the headspace issue with the shorter 45acp case. My Blackhawk with the 45acp cylinder is one of the more accurate revolvers I own. I do shoot acp and Super in my convertible. They are accurate and the Super is powerful enough when loaded warm. I have no problem with either. My thinking was a three cylinder for 45acp standard loads and the hotter 45Super I already load. The second cylinder would be for the 460 Rowland. The third for Schofield and 45 Special loaded to 5-shot only pressure. With modern powders, it would cover anything I want to do with it with improved efficiency over the old Colt case and allow longer nose profile bullets to crimp in the crimp groove. The 5-shot cylinder will easily withstand the Rowland and +p+ Schofield or cowboy loads. Only reason I mentioned the Cowboy Special is because it can essentially be used with longer bullets seated out, loaded to duplicate the Rowland. I may infact save some cash and drop the Rowland cylinder altogether. The 460 Rowland offers no benefits in a revolver. The case is just enough longer to prevent chambering in an Autoloading 45 ACP. The power comes from loading to higher pressure. So, longseating bullets in ammo meant for revolvers accomplishs the same thing. In a Double Action, I could live with the 460 Rowland since 45 ACP could still be used with moon clips. Also, the 45 AR could still be used. One idea that did occur to me was chambering a Single Action for the 460 Rowland and then cutting the rim rebates so 45 AR could still be used. But, I ended up sticking with the standard ACP Chambers...
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Post by starmetal47 on Sept 8, 2022 11:22:07 GMT -5
You know when Bo Clerke invented the 38/45 on the 45acp case he meant it for a target round, not a 38 magnum on the 1911. As usual though people had to pump it up and resulted in ruptured webs on the 45acp case. I don't believe ramped barrels were in vogue at the time. The cure was to make the wildcat rounds from 308 brass. Another problem from high pressure was the primer flowing back into the firing pin hole cutting little donuts our of the primer that littered the insides of your 1911. The solution was to bush your firing pin hole to the 9mm/38Super smaller firing pin. I've had a 38/45 for over 40 years. Fantastic cartridge and very accurate. Anyhow the gist of the post is about the heavier stronger 308 cases, but then you lose capicity and a devil to form and ream. As a side note the 45 Win case isn't much heavier then the 45acp. I use them to make 38/45's and also 45acp shotshells.
Allan Jones the ballistician wanted to find out the velocity difference between firing the same cartridge from a semi auto pistol and a revolver both have the exact same barrel lengths. He did this with the 9mm and the 45acp. In every test the revolver had the higher velocity. One would think the gas leakage from the cylinder gap on the revolver would result in the lower velocity. I found it quite interesting. One more thing I have a 3 screw Ruger 45 Colt Blackhawk with the 45acp cylinder and 4 5/8 inch barrel. The revolver weighs 38 ounces empty. I find it quite interesting the difference in recoil between the revolver and my 1911. Not a whole big difference.
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Post by leadhound on Sept 8, 2022 12:12:53 GMT -5
You know when Bo Clerke invented the 38/45 on the 45acp case he meant it for a target round, not a 38 magnum on the 1911. As usual though people had to pump it up and resulted in ruptured webs on the 45acp case. I don't believe ramped barrels were in vogue at the time. The cure was to make the wildcat rounds from 308 brass. Another problem from high pressure was the primer flowing back into the firing pin hole cutting little donuts our of the primer that littered the insides of your 1911. The solution was to bush your firing pin hole to the 9mm/38Super smaller firing pin. I've had a 38/45 for over 40 years. Fantastic cartridge and very accurate. Anyhow the gist of the post is about the heavier stronger 308 cases, but then you lose capicity and a devil to form and ream. As a side note the 45 Win case isn't much heavier then the 45acp. I use them to make 38/45's and also 45acp shotshells. Allan Jones the ballistician wanted to find out the velocity difference between firing the same cartridge from a semi auto pistol and a revolver both have the exact same barrel lengths. He did this with the 9mm and the 45acp. In every test the revolver had the higher velocity. One would think the gas leakage from the cylinder gap on the revolver would result in the lower velocity. I found it quite interesting. One more thing I have a 3 screw Ruger 45 Colt Blackhawk with the 45acp cylinder and 4 5/8 inch barrel. The revolver weighs 38 ounces empty. I find it quite interesting the difference in recoil between the revolver and my 1911. Not a whole big difference. The 450SMC used the 308 eventually with a small rifle primer pocket, not sure if a necessity or not? Only a hair behind the Rowland in some load data. A sort of 45 Super +P
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Post by starmetal47 on Sept 8, 2022 12:19:29 GMT -5
You know when Bo Clerke invented the 38/45 on the 45acp case he meant it for a target round, not a 38 magnum on the 1911. As usual though people had to pump it up and resulted in ruptured webs on the 45acp case. I don't believe ramped barrels were in vogue at the time. The cure was to make the wildcat rounds from 308 brass. Another problem from high pressure was the primer flowing back into the firing pin hole cutting little donuts our of the primer that littered the insides of your 1911. The solution was to bush your firing pin hole to the 9mm/38Super smaller firing pin. I've had a 38/45 for over 40 years. Fantastic cartridge and very accurate. Anyhow the gist of the post is about the heavier stronger 308 cases, but then you lose capicity and a devil to form and ream. As a side note the 45 Win case isn't much heavier then the 45acp. I use them to make 38/45's and also 45acp shotshells. Allan Jones the ballistician wanted to find out the velocity difference between firing the same cartridge from a semi auto pistol and a revolver both have the exact same barrel lengths. He did this with the 9mm and the 45acp. In every test the revolver had the higher velocity. One would think the gas leakage from the cylinder gap on the revolver would result in the lower velocity. I found it quite interesting. One more thing I have a 3 screw Ruger 45 Colt Blackhawk with the 45acp cylinder and 4 5/8 inch barrel. The revolver weighs 38 ounces empty. I find it quite interesting the difference in recoil between the revolver and my 1911. Not a whole big difference. The 450SMC used the 308 eventually with a small rifle primer pocket, not sure if a necessity or not? Only a hair behind the Rowland in some load data. A sort of 45 Super +P I thought Coelho had Starline make the case with a small rifle primer pocket?
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Post by bradshaw on Sept 8, 2022 13:23:54 GMT -5
You know when Bo Clerke invented the 38/45 on the 45acp case he meant it for a target round, not a 38 magnum on the 1911. As usual though people had to pump it up and resulted in ruptured webs on the 45acp case. I don't believe ramped barrels were in vogue at the time. The cure was to make the wildcat rounds from 308 brass. Another problem from high pressure was the primer flowing back into the firing pin hole cutting little donuts our of the primer that littered the insides of your 1911. The solution was to bush your firing pin hole to the 9mm/38Super smaller firing pin. I've had a 38/45 for over 40 years. Fantastic cartridge and very accurate. Anyhow the gist of the post is about the heavier stronger 308 cases, but then you lose capicity and a devil to form and ream. As a side note the 45 Win case isn't much heavier then the 45acp. I use them to make 38/45's and also 45acp shotshells. Allan Jones the ballistician wanted to find out the velocity difference between firing the same cartridge from a semi auto pistol and a revolver both have the exact same barrel lengths. He did this with the 9mm and the 45acp. In every test the revolver had the higher velocity. One would think the gas leakage from the cylinder gap on the revolver would result in the lower velocity. I found it quite interesting. One more thing I have a 3 screw Ruger 45 Colt Blackhawk with the 45acp cylinder and 4 5/8 inch barrel. The revolver weighs 38 ounces empty. I find it quite interesting the difference in recoil between the revolver and my 1911. Not a whole big difference. ***** Did my share of forming .308 into .44 Auto Mag and 7mm/308x1-3/4”, neck reaming both. Took advantage of special small primer .308 brass----thinner wall than standard .308/7.62mm----to form Jim Stekl’s (Remington R&D and Bench Rest Hall of Fame) 1-1/2-inch 7mm BR. Took me 8 hours to make my first 100 7mm BR from .308 brass. Can’t imagine the ream necessary to form Bo Clerke’s 38/45. The .45 ACP is not a good round in the Ruger Blackhawk, it is a great round. Single-load, single-extract mis a natural in the single action. The 50 to 70 fps velocity increase from same-length revolver barrel probably attributes to the long revolver chamber behind the barrel. Pressure peaks well before cylinder gap. As for hot-rodding .45 ACP brass, the idea doesn’t enter my mind. My .45 ACP jumps seamless from sixgun to auto pistol, a huge plus. For cannon shells, the .45 Colt cylinder goes in. .45 ACP is a sleeper in the Blackhawk. A beginning shooter introduced on .22LR gets to experience, without intimidation, making hits with a centerfire. David Bradshaw
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Post by starmetal47 on Sept 8, 2022 14:53:13 GMT -5
You know when Bo Clerke invented the 38/45 on the 45acp case he meant it for a target round, not a 38 magnum on the 1911. As usual though people had to pump it up and resulted in ruptured webs on the 45acp case. I don't believe ramped barrels were in vogue at the time. The cure was to make the wildcat rounds from 308 brass. Another problem from high pressure was the primer flowing back into the firing pin hole cutting little donuts our of the primer that littered the insides of your 1911. The solution was to bush your firing pin hole to the 9mm/38Super smaller firing pin. I've had a 38/45 for over 40 years. Fantastic cartridge and very accurate. Anyhow the gist of the post is about the heavier stronger 308 cases, but then you lose capicity and a devil to form and ream. As a side note the 45 Win case isn't much heavier then the 45acp. I use them to make 38/45's and also 45acp shotshells. Allan Jones the ballistician wanted to find out the velocity difference between firing the same cartridge from a semi auto pistol and a revolver both have the exact same barrel lengths. He did this with the 9mm and the 45acp. In every test the revolver had the higher velocity. One would think the gas leakage from the cylinder gap on the revolver would result in the lower velocity. I found it quite interesting. One more thing I have a 3 screw Ruger 45 Colt Blackhawk with the 45acp cylinder and 4 5/8 inch barrel. The revolver weighs 38 ounces empty. I find it quite interesting the difference in recoil between the revolver and my 1911. Not a whole big difference. ***** Did my share of forming .308 into .44 Auto Mag and 7mm/308x1-3/4”, neck reaming both. Took advantage of special small primer .308 brass----thinner wall than standard .308/7.62mm----to form Jim Stekl’s (Remington R&D and Bench Rest Hall of Fame) 1-1/2-inch 7mm BR. Took me 8 hours to make my first 100 7mm BR from .308 brass. Can’t imagine the ream necessary to form Bo Clerke’s 38/45. The .45 ACP is not a good round in the Ruger Blackhawk, it is a great round. Single-load, single-extract mis a natural in the single action. The 50 to 70 fps velocity increase from same-length revolver barrel probably attributes to the long revolver chamber behind the barrel. Pressure peaks well before cylinder gap. As for hot-rodding .45 ACP brass, the idea doesn’t enter my mind. My .45 ACP jumps seamless from sixgun to auto pistol, a huge plus. For cannon shells, the .45 Colt cylinder goes in. .45 ACP is a sleeper in the Blackhawk. A beginning shooter introduced on .22LR gets to experience, without intimidation, making hits with a centerfire. David Bradshaw You are correct about hot rodding the 45acp, it's isn't worth it and you hardly gain anything. I'm talking mainly in the Ruger since the cylinder is tough. I have a Thompson and a HK UMP, both 16 inch barrels. In hot rodding thems a little, because in reality the Thompson wasn't made for magnum 45acp even though it's massive and the case is well support, but because it unnessarily beats it too much. The UMP too. I didn't gain much more velocity. Both those two carbines are deadly accurate especially the UMP and it does have polygonal rifling. Now on my Ruger 45acp cylinder, it has the TIGHTEST chamber I've seen in anything chambered for the 45acp including match 1911 barrels. If my reloads aren't dead nuts perfect they are hard to chamber. With that said it's amazingly accurrate. I have a few gunsmith tuned 1911's and it will out shoot them. It will even chew a big hole at 50 yards. I really like it and I love the 45acp. Now you were talking about laboring forming those cases. Recently I acquired a 5.7 Melvin Johnson Spitfire carbine, that is on the M1 carbine format. I just got new brass and forming them was a pain in the butt even though it's a very small case. Real fun rifle.
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Post by ezekiel38 on Sept 8, 2022 17:05:58 GMT -5
Now that's a cool Ruger!
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rWt
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,538
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Post by rWt on Sept 10, 2022 8:18:32 GMT -5
How do the 45 ACP cylinders measure- .451?
Do you all recommend using .452 cast bullets-assuming the cylinder throats measure .451?
Same questions for the 45 Colt cylinder?
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